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hello

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and welcome to the show i'm martin

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willis your host

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and uh we have a a great show

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for you this evening the

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first part of the show is going to be

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with alejandro rojas

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and uh he's going to be catching up on

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all

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of the things that are going on he's got

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a couple things in the works we're going

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to be talking about

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so that's for the first 25 minutes

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and and the after that we'll be bringing

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in our

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guest this evening and it's

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ken fortenberry and he has a book out

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called

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flight 7 is missing the search for my

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father

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book and it really has a great uh

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very interesting ufo connection we're

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going to be talking about that

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his father was also part of a very

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interesting

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earlier ufo sighting that i do remember

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reading about and the only reason i

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remember it

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is because there's such bizarre uh

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skeptics

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responses to what the pilot supposedly

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saw they say fireflies that's how i

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remembered that one

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i want to thank everyone that listens to

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the show and

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i also want to thank the people that

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support the show very much

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we are on patreon and you can see that

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link on our website

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podcastufo.com uh while you're there

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check out the latest blog from charles

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lear

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and the title of that is when ufos and

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cars collide

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um there's some real fascinating uh

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stories a couple of them

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in there one uh i was familiar with and

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one um i was not

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uh we have a ton of people on our

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facebook page

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uh so if you go to facebook.com podcast

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ufo

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um peggy has helped us with that for

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many years

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um and she posts almost every day

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relevant ufo

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and space stories um like i said

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articles and stories every day so thank

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you peggy for all that you do

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thank you to bill uh skywatcher over

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there at kgr radio

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uh he does excellent work uh producing

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the show

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for us over there screening calls and

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all that

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bill had a bit of a health uh issue he

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is back he's back

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at it and i hope he stays in good health

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um

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now in the chat room if you're in the

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chat room we can actually post your

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questions so keep that in mind

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um when you are uh there so

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uh let's see um you want to keep that in

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mind and uh if you look behind me

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you'll see uh the people on youtube that

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is a painting i did

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um and that uh i'm starting to do a

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bunch of ufo

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uh paintings and i'm gonna be talking

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about that in a little commercial for

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youtube that i have coming up

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at the first break and with that

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uh i'm going to bring in our guest

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first guest alejandro rojas the one and

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only welcome to the show alejandro good

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to have you

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yeah good to be here sorry i'm on i'm on

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crap cam here

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couldn't find my good camera i'm in

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arizona right now and i thought i

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brought it but i couldn't find it in my

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stuff

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i know we just uh we just barely got

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this show

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uh together right right in the nick of

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time

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so glad to have you i see all the um i

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see all the

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the ufo t-shirts behind you all stacked

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up and ready to go

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i'm in arizona yeah ufo congress

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headquarters

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in fact there's uh one of those little

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hovering

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ufo things there oh yeah you could see

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the alien back there

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oh yes the other thing with the house

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yeah see that hovering

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yeah ufo right there it's like a where's

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waldo

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and i'm gonna give you he's right there

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social distancing yeah

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yeah oh i see the ufo oh there it is

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yeah with the green

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glow on the bottom yeah yeah mixed with

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all the other

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yeah those are awesome so how is

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everything going for you and you got

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something new you want to talk about

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right

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yeah yeah so everything's going well for

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me

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and i am going to restart while we're

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working on the congress looks like we're

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going to do

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an uh most likely all online conference

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so and however we set it up we'll have

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the

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but um

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yeah we uh probably will do all online

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which we're excited about because we

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found this incredible tool

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that really uh because there's are

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more people of course that have been

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doing live events that are doing them

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all online

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but this cool tool is really cool

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because

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it allows you to kind of have your own

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community

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so you can go in and it kind of looks

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like a conference agenda

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and for each of the talks you click a

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button and it lets you in the room

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and that's where the speaker will come

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up when it's time for that speaker

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and you can watch it there and then

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you'll actually have access to this

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tool from anywhere from a week to six

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months depending on on how we are able

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to work it out

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and you can go in and watch those videos

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anytime so let's say you miss

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one of the the lectures well you just in

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this tool

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after that lecture has been done you

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just go in to

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that lecture and you can watch it

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anytime after it occurs

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so that's really cool and then it also

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has a lot of community

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correspondence type of stuff so like you

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can set up

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chats where you can talk like on your

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computer like this from your house so if

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people wanted two groups of people

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could like you know hey let's meet for

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lunch every day and

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and talk about the the uh lectures that

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happen today or let's meet at the end of

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the day

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in our community room that anybody can

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set up who's an attendee

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and we'll talk about the lectures of the

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day so there's a lot of ways for you to

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interact with other attendees

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which we highly recommend so you've got

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this whole community

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which is the fun thing about you know

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these online are the

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face-to-face events is that a lot of

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people are meeting for lunch and dinner

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and lots of groups talking to each other

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so

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online event

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yeah uh well hey look um

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this is about as close as you can get

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right to uh

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to having a conference without being

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there exactly so i think once people get

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to see the tool

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they'll get to start to use it we'll do

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some videos to show you the tool

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um and different things you can do as as

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we go on

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and here's the other cool thing once you

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buy your ticket you immediately have

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access to the tool so you can go in

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there and

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see as the more speakers are are

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added to the event uh you can even go

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into those

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lecture rooms and start to comment and

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say hey i'm really looking forward to

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this so happy to see you're here

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or whatever and with vendors too so you

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can pop in and start buying stuff from

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vendors and checking out the vendors and

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communicating with the vendors through

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the application so

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really cool that way too so it's going

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to be a lot of fun i'm looking forward

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to it this tool is pretty incredible and

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uh

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and sell my ufo paintings

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hey hey do you uh are you able to give

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uh

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a list of some of the speakers or do you

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have to confirm

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this new way of doing the conference

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with them first

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uh we've got to confirm and uh so

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i don't know yeah we've got to confirm

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with everyone i think you know it'll be

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probably

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most likely travis walton we have there

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quite a bit so i'm sure he'll be there

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still but

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um yeah i don't know that we have

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anybody 100

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confirmed yet is there anybody else i

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could like you'd feel comfortable with

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travis walton chris bledsoe yeah i guess

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uh uh

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nick pope uh chris bledsoe

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but we still again so those are a couple

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of others that we

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will definitely have oh yeah cece and

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marianne who you had on your show

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all right say hi to karen for us yeah he

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says hi

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honey and by the way we did release last

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night a video of karen kind of letting

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people know that we're going to have

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this online event going on

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so you can go to my social media

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the congress social media so i'm at

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alejandro t

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rojas on on twitter or you can just find

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me on

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facebook um or you look for the ufo

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congress and you can watch her video

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where she's kind of explaining this to

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people so did i

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did i just hear did i mishear you or did

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i hear you say

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uh chris bledsoe did you did you i did

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say that yes

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yeah uh someone just mentioned him in

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the uh

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uh in the chat so i just put that up

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there

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but uh whoops i don't know where how

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that got there

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but anyway uh so you have something else

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going on let's

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talk about that okay yeah otherwise i am

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gonna start up a podcast again

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um and i oh so here's what i'm gonna do

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i'm gonna live stream it because the

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live streaming's a lot of fun so what

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i'm gonna do

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is is i guess there's karen

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it's just a little bit similar to what

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you're doing

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um but different so i am gonna have

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a video and an audio version of uh

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my podcast so what i'm going to do is

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i'm going to live stream

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and i'm going to do interviews but i'm

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also going to do lectures so at least

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once a month

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you know not everybody can make it to

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00:09:48,150 --> 00:09:45,440
these events and i've got

286
00:09:49,269 --> 00:09:48,160
so many lectures you know dozens of

287
00:09:51,030 --> 00:09:49,279
lectures that i've done

288
00:09:53,269 --> 00:09:51,040
over the years that and i hold on to

289
00:09:54,790 --> 00:09:53,279
them because i'll offer you know when

290
00:09:56,150 --> 00:09:54,800
people ask me to speak i'll say here's

291
00:09:58,470 --> 00:09:56,160
some lectures i have i can

292
00:10:00,630 --> 00:09:58,480
update or i can create a new fresh one

293
00:10:03,030 --> 00:10:00,640
because i love creating new lectures

294
00:10:03,990 --> 00:10:03,040
um so i'm going to start to do those for

295
00:10:06,470 --> 00:10:04,000
people so i'll live

296
00:10:07,509 --> 00:10:06,480
stream go over my lecture my

297
00:10:09,910 --> 00:10:07,519
presentation

298
00:10:11,269 --> 00:10:09,920
on various topics astronomers and ufos

299
00:10:13,430 --> 00:10:11,279
religions and ufos

300
00:10:15,910 --> 00:10:13,440
um you know the whole a tip thing and

301
00:10:19,030 --> 00:10:15,920
how that happened and the guys behind it

302
00:10:21,269 --> 00:10:19,040
um that sort of stuff and then

303
00:10:22,310 --> 00:10:21,279
uh and have a q a part for people who

304
00:10:25,670 --> 00:10:22,320
are live in there

305
00:10:26,150 --> 00:10:25,680
however i can't unfortunately go on

306
00:10:28,069 --> 00:10:26,160
giving

307
00:10:29,509 --> 00:10:28,079
everything for free because as you know

308
00:10:31,750 --> 00:10:29,519
it's expensive

309
00:10:33,110 --> 00:10:31,760
and i can't be out of pocket on this

310
00:10:35,030 --> 00:10:33,120
anymore but

311
00:10:36,630 --> 00:10:35,040
what i'm going to do is you know my

312
00:10:38,790 --> 00:10:36,640
podcast because i will turn

313
00:10:39,829 --> 00:10:38,800
all these live streams into audio

314
00:10:40,310 --> 00:10:39,839
because there's a lot of people who

315
00:10:42,230 --> 00:10:40,320
prefer

316
00:10:44,230 --> 00:10:42,240
just listening on audio you know they're

317
00:10:46,310 --> 00:10:44,240
at work or whatever on the road and they

318
00:10:49,190 --> 00:10:46,320
want to hear it just like your podcast

319
00:10:50,470 --> 00:10:49,200
um so it will be a dollar fifty a month

320
00:10:53,030 --> 00:10:50,480
for subscribing

321
00:10:55,829 --> 00:10:53,040
well yeah essentially for the audio

322
00:10:59,350 --> 00:10:55,839
however i also i'm gonna on patreon

323
00:11:01,030 --> 00:10:59,360
if you're at least a a member a patron

324
00:11:03,030 --> 00:11:01,040
of mine for a dollar fifty

325
00:11:04,389 --> 00:11:03,040
you'll get the audios there too so i'll

326
00:11:06,310 --> 00:11:04,399
post them on patreon

327
00:11:08,310 --> 00:11:06,320
and i'll also have a subscription

328
00:11:08,710 --> 00:11:08,320
regular podcast so you can subscribe to

329
00:11:10,949 --> 00:11:08,720
it

330
00:11:11,829 --> 00:11:10,959
on any of the podcast platforms out

331
00:11:13,509 --> 00:11:11,839
there

332
00:11:16,310 --> 00:11:13,519
however for the video part if you want

333
00:11:18,710 --> 00:11:16,320
to be involved and see all the videos

334
00:11:20,630 --> 00:11:18,720
uh i'll get i'll do those uh on a

335
00:11:22,630 --> 00:11:20,640
subscription service through youtube

336
00:11:25,430 --> 00:11:22,640
and through patreon so if you're a five

337
00:11:27,590 --> 00:11:25,440
dollar or more per month

338
00:11:29,509 --> 00:11:27,600
patron of mine you'll be able to get all

339
00:11:31,509 --> 00:11:29,519
kinds of free stuff you'll get that

340
00:11:33,910 --> 00:11:31,519
i'm gonna probably i'm gonna do try to

341
00:11:35,430 --> 00:11:33,920
do ufo news daily just a little popping

342
00:11:37,350 --> 00:11:35,440
on the live stream and saying hey guys

343
00:11:39,590 --> 00:11:37,360
here's the headlines for the week

344
00:11:41,750 --> 00:11:39,600
um you know and here's my thoughts and

345
00:11:43,190 --> 00:11:41,760
stuff on that so we'll we'll do that and

346
00:11:44,470 --> 00:11:43,200
everything if you're at the five dollar

347
00:11:47,509 --> 00:11:44,480
level you'll get everything

348
00:11:49,110 --> 00:11:47,519
uh on patreon on youtube it's a little

349
00:11:50,790 --> 00:11:49,120
different it's more expensive

350
00:11:52,230 --> 00:11:50,800
so i gotta charge a little more on

351
00:11:53,590 --> 00:11:52,240
youtube but there'll be a subscription

352
00:11:57,670 --> 00:11:53,600
service at the open minds

353
00:11:59,590 --> 00:11:57,680
uh youtube channel there too so okay

354
00:12:01,030 --> 00:11:59,600
you can access this all this through

355
00:12:03,910 --> 00:12:01,040
openminds

356
00:12:05,829 --> 00:12:03,920
uh no all this through my patreon that's

357
00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:05,839
the by far the best place to go is

358
00:12:10,550 --> 00:12:07,040
alejandro rojas

359
00:12:12,790 --> 00:12:10,560
on patreon and then uh also you'll be

360
00:12:15,910 --> 00:12:12,800
able to at least the video portions

361
00:12:19,269 --> 00:12:15,920
be able to subscribe to on through uh

362
00:12:21,829 --> 00:12:19,279
open minds youtube channel i see

363
00:12:23,430 --> 00:12:21,839
okay uh yeah so that's how that'll work

364
00:12:25,750 --> 00:12:23,440
and really if people are kind of like

365
00:12:28,470 --> 00:12:25,760
well come on man i like the free content

366
00:12:30,550 --> 00:12:28,480
well really everything that i've been

367
00:12:32,550 --> 00:12:30,560
doing these last few months like writing

368
00:12:33,990 --> 00:12:32,560
articles on den of geek doing

369
00:12:36,150 --> 00:12:34,000
interviews some of those things i'm

370
00:12:39,269 --> 00:12:36,160
still going to be doing all of that so

371
00:12:40,550 --> 00:12:39,279
i none of the articles i write are are

372
00:12:41,990 --> 00:12:40,560
behind the paywall

373
00:12:43,750 --> 00:12:42,000
so you'll still be able to get all of

374
00:12:45,430 --> 00:12:43,760
that stuff it's just these things that

375
00:12:47,829 --> 00:12:45,440
cost me money to do

376
00:12:49,030 --> 00:12:47,839
i'm gonna have to you know uh get a

377
00:12:51,829 --> 00:12:49,040
small fee out there so

378
00:12:53,350 --> 00:12:51,839
people can can help support that and

379
00:12:54,710 --> 00:12:53,360
keep it going because you know

380
00:12:57,030 --> 00:12:54,720
i've heard a lot of response that people

381
00:12:59,509 --> 00:12:57,040
miss the show and i miss doing it but

382
00:13:01,590 --> 00:12:59,519
um it's as you know you know it's very

383
00:13:04,230 --> 00:13:01,600
expensive and time consuming and

384
00:13:05,750 --> 00:13:04,240
so um this way i'll be able to hopefully

385
00:13:07,110 --> 00:13:05,760
make this sustainable

386
00:13:08,790 --> 00:13:07,120
and i won't have to go off the area

387
00:13:11,350 --> 00:13:08,800
again yeah

388
00:13:12,949 --> 00:13:11,360
yeah i i understand and you know what um

389
00:13:17,110 --> 00:13:12,959
i i bought a latte

390
00:13:20,389 --> 00:13:17,120
today with a uh a large latte oat milk

391
00:13:23,030 --> 00:13:20,399
and it was eighty 7.88

392
00:13:25,110 --> 00:13:23,040
so if you look at it that way if you're

393
00:13:26,550 --> 00:13:25,120
buying a cup of coffee or less than a

394
00:13:29,829 --> 00:13:26,560
cup of coffee a month

395
00:13:31,829 --> 00:13:29,839
you can help uh alejandro and yeah

396
00:13:33,190 --> 00:13:31,839
and what i love about good honest

397
00:13:35,750 --> 00:13:33,200
content and if you're new

398
00:13:37,269 --> 00:13:35,760
let me just plug this if you're new

399
00:13:40,230 --> 00:13:37,279
looking into the ufo field

400
00:13:41,350 --> 00:13:40,240
uh you're going to get the straight deal

401
00:13:44,389 --> 00:13:41,360
from alejandro

402
00:13:46,389 --> 00:13:44,399
so this straight skinny and you know

403
00:13:47,990 --> 00:13:46,399
um it's fun because with this live

404
00:13:49,750 --> 00:13:48,000
stream streaming it is

405
00:13:51,509 --> 00:13:49,760
like a community that's why i definitely

406
00:13:54,710 --> 00:13:51,519
would like people to do the

407
00:13:56,870 --> 00:13:54,720
the patreon and the live streams because

408
00:14:00,150 --> 00:13:56,880
it is like a community you know

409
00:14:03,110 --> 00:14:00,160
um we and it's like us meeting

410
00:14:04,949 --> 00:14:03,120
it's almost like which i have my youtube

411
00:14:06,710 --> 00:14:04,959
ufo think tank which i'm still gonna be

412
00:14:08,230 --> 00:14:06,720
i'm actually gonna start posting stuff

413
00:14:10,790 --> 00:14:08,240
to more as well

414
00:14:13,030 --> 00:14:10,800
um free youtube content will be on my

415
00:14:14,790 --> 00:14:13,040
ufo think tank youtube which i will post

416
00:14:17,590 --> 00:14:14,800
free youtubes up there too

417
00:14:19,829 --> 00:14:17,600
occasionally but um it's like a

418
00:14:22,150 --> 00:14:19,839
community so we can come in

419
00:14:23,430 --> 00:14:22,160
uh you know just five bucks a month uh

420
00:14:25,430 --> 00:14:23,440
if they're on the patreon

421
00:14:27,829 --> 00:14:25,440
and we can live stream with each other

422
00:14:30,069 --> 00:14:27,839
and chat on a regular basis

423
00:14:31,030 --> 00:14:30,079
and you know create our own little

424
00:14:33,189 --> 00:14:31,040
community of

425
00:14:34,150 --> 00:14:33,199
people who are interested in the more

426
00:14:36,870 --> 00:14:34,160
credible

427
00:14:37,990 --> 00:14:36,880
um side of things or at least even if

428
00:14:39,750 --> 00:14:38,000
they want to come in and

429
00:14:42,230 --> 00:14:39,760
debate me and challenge me on some of

430
00:14:43,430 --> 00:14:42,240
the ideas that i have and think hey guy

431
00:14:45,430 --> 00:14:43,440
you're not thinking of this you're not

432
00:14:46,470 --> 00:14:45,440
thinking of that and that's fine because

433
00:14:47,910 --> 00:14:46,480
i love that sort of

434
00:14:50,310 --> 00:14:47,920
back and forth conversation that's how

435
00:14:53,509 --> 00:14:50,320
we all learn and you know you and i have

436
00:14:56,710 --> 00:14:53,519
never been afraid of debate or um

437
00:14:58,790 --> 00:14:56,720
you know civil professional discourse

438
00:14:59,990 --> 00:14:58,800
uh yeah i was recently on richard

439
00:15:02,949 --> 00:15:00,000
dolan's

440
00:15:04,629 --> 00:15:02,959
week-long or a day-long conference and

441
00:15:06,230 --> 00:15:04,639
dolan and i certainly are not on the

442
00:15:06,550 --> 00:15:06,240
same page a lot of my listeners were

443
00:15:08,310 --> 00:15:06,560
like

444
00:15:10,310 --> 00:15:08,320
really you're gonna go on dolan i know

445
00:15:10,790 --> 00:15:10,320
you don't believe everything he does but

446
00:15:13,189 --> 00:15:10,800
that's

447
00:15:15,110 --> 00:15:13,199
you know we're friends uh all of us and

448
00:15:17,990 --> 00:15:15,120
none of us have the same idea

449
00:15:19,350 --> 00:15:18,000
about things um i'm some friends with

450
00:15:21,269 --> 00:15:19,360
some very fringe people who have

451
00:15:24,230 --> 00:15:21,279
completely different ideas than i do

452
00:15:26,389 --> 00:15:24,240
but that's fine it's fun to be able to

453
00:15:29,829 --> 00:15:26,399
discuss all of this and wonder

454
00:15:32,629 --> 00:15:29,839
uh in a in a civilized and sometimes

455
00:15:33,269 --> 00:15:32,639
jovial manner uh about our differences

456
00:15:34,790 --> 00:15:33,279
so

457
00:15:36,790 --> 00:15:34,800
i'm really looking forward to that and

458
00:15:39,509 --> 00:15:36,800
then the other thing i'm doing is

459
00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:39,519
i'll be doing mortgages too so none of

460
00:15:41,990 --> 00:15:41,040
this will have ads on it that's

461
00:15:44,550 --> 00:15:42,000
the other great thing about a

462
00:15:45,430 --> 00:15:44,560
subscription service is that uh first of

463
00:15:46,949 --> 00:15:45,440
all as you've

464
00:15:48,870 --> 00:15:46,959
and i have found it's difficult to get

465
00:15:50,710 --> 00:15:48,880
ads in the ufo field uh

466
00:15:52,790 --> 00:15:50,720
there's still too much of a taboo for

467
00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:52,800
that really i think but

468
00:15:57,910 --> 00:15:55,920
um be by being able to subscribe there

469
00:15:58,790 --> 00:15:57,920
won't be ads the only advertising you

470
00:16:01,189 --> 00:15:58,800
will hear

471
00:16:02,470 --> 00:16:01,199
is that i will definitely mention on

472
00:16:05,189 --> 00:16:02,480
every show

473
00:16:06,870 --> 00:16:05,199
that uh i am doing mortgages in

474
00:16:07,990 --> 00:16:06,880
california currently and i'll be doing

475
00:16:10,710 --> 00:16:08,000
them in arizona here

476
00:16:12,069 --> 00:16:10,720
soon and possibly in colorado soon after

477
00:16:13,350 --> 00:16:12,079
that so i will be

478
00:16:15,590 --> 00:16:13,360
so if you're buying a house or you want

479
00:16:16,790 --> 00:16:15,600
to refinance because the rates are

480
00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:16,800
extremely low then

481
00:16:21,350 --> 00:16:18,720
get in touch with me i'll have to hit

482
00:16:23,430 --> 00:16:21,360
you up for that a question up on the

483
00:16:25,430 --> 00:16:23,440
in the chat um i think they're just

484
00:16:26,710 --> 00:16:25,440
looking to where they're they can find

485
00:16:30,150 --> 00:16:26,720
this they want to

486
00:16:32,150 --> 00:16:30,160
yeah my patreon by far first of all

487
00:16:34,389 --> 00:16:32,160
i'll have a subscription service on the

488
00:16:36,470 --> 00:16:34,399
open minds youtube channel so you can go

489
00:16:39,509 --> 00:16:36,480
there if you're a big youtube fan

490
00:16:42,069 --> 00:16:39,519
go to the open minds channel however

491
00:16:44,470 --> 00:16:42,079
i really really want to encourage most

492
00:16:45,990 --> 00:16:44,480
people to go to patreon because

493
00:16:47,829 --> 00:16:46,000
you're going to pay less and you're

494
00:16:49,269 --> 00:16:47,839
going to get more if you go through

495
00:16:53,590 --> 00:16:49,279
patreon patreon

496
00:16:54,629 --> 00:16:53,600
um i is is not as expensive as youtube

497
00:16:57,030 --> 00:16:54,639
for me to

498
00:16:58,069 --> 00:16:57,040
to do this on so i highly suggest people

499
00:16:59,509 --> 00:16:58,079
go to patreon

500
00:17:02,150 --> 00:16:59,519
not only that you'll get yeah you'll

501
00:17:03,430 --> 00:17:02,160
just get a lot more everything i do i

502
00:17:06,150 --> 00:17:03,440
post on patreon

503
00:17:06,870 --> 00:17:06,160
so you'll get everything on patreon

504
00:17:08,789 --> 00:17:06,880
excellent

505
00:17:10,710 --> 00:17:08,799
um you know speaking of uh you you

506
00:17:11,510 --> 00:17:10,720
talked about uh you mentioned richard

507
00:17:14,069 --> 00:17:11,520
dolan and

508
00:17:14,710 --> 00:17:14,079
you know you may not always agree um i

509
00:17:18,069 --> 00:17:14,720
saw

510
00:17:21,350 --> 00:17:18,079
did you happen to you read the uh

511
00:17:22,710 --> 00:17:21,360
patreon thanks josh all right awesome

512
00:17:23,669 --> 00:17:22,720
he's going to get access to everything

513
00:17:27,669 --> 00:17:23,679
too

514
00:17:30,789 --> 00:17:27,679
excellent wow um so uh

515
00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:30,799
with the wilson document yeah there

516
00:17:33,909 --> 00:17:32,400
do you know did you re happen to read

517
00:17:36,310 --> 00:17:33,919
that article that came out

518
00:17:37,110 --> 00:17:36,320
from oh yeah yeah yeah billy cox i love

519
00:17:39,270 --> 00:17:37,120
billy cox

520
00:17:40,230 --> 00:17:39,280
i shared um and this is what's in

521
00:17:43,270 --> 00:17:40,240
florida

522
00:17:45,909 --> 00:17:43,280
wrote for

523
00:17:46,710 --> 00:17:45,919
um i forgot the paper out there that he

524
00:17:48,310 --> 00:17:46,720
wrote for

525
00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:48,320
but this is what i've been saying since

526
00:17:52,470 --> 00:17:51,120
the get-go and i know i can be kind of a

527
00:17:54,630 --> 00:17:52,480
spoiled sport and

528
00:17:56,230 --> 00:17:54,640
a bummer uh especially to some of my

529
00:17:58,470 --> 00:17:56,240
good buddies our good buddies like some

530
00:18:00,230 --> 00:17:58,480
of the twitter guys like ufo joe

531
00:18:02,470 --> 00:18:00,240
they're so excited about this this

532
00:18:03,390 --> 00:18:02,480
wilson document that i have not been

533
00:18:06,390 --> 00:18:03,400
excited about

534
00:18:07,830 --> 00:18:06,400
whatsoever uh billy cox like he said in

535
00:18:11,190 --> 00:18:07,840
this article

536
00:18:13,110 --> 00:18:11,200
talked to this admiral wilson years ago

537
00:18:15,110 --> 00:18:13,120
about this topic and wilson said the

538
00:18:17,510 --> 00:18:15,120
conversation didn't happen

539
00:18:18,950 --> 00:18:17,520
um it's easy for us to say well of

540
00:18:22,150 --> 00:18:18,960
course he wouldn't say

541
00:18:23,029 --> 00:18:22,160
admit that he's done this i totally

542
00:18:25,830 --> 00:18:23,039
throw that

543
00:18:27,270 --> 00:18:25,840
idea out the window because we're living

544
00:18:30,070 --> 00:18:27,280
in a new world

545
00:18:31,990 --> 00:18:30,080
where we do have military and officials

546
00:18:34,150 --> 00:18:32,000
coming forward to say yes we do take

547
00:18:35,830 --> 00:18:34,160
this stuff seriously

548
00:18:37,830 --> 00:18:35,840
and that's where we need to kind of

549
00:18:40,150 --> 00:18:37,840
foster and look for

550
00:18:41,830 --> 00:18:40,160
the conspiratorial documents that cannot

551
00:18:43,669 --> 00:18:41,840
be confirmed

552
00:18:44,950 --> 00:18:43,679
whether you know these things happened

553
00:18:47,270 --> 00:18:44,960
or they're real

554
00:18:49,510 --> 00:18:47,280
are a dime a dozen this field has been

555
00:18:51,110 --> 00:18:49,520
full of alleged documents for

556
00:18:52,710 --> 00:18:51,120
for decades ever since i've been

557
00:18:53,909 --> 00:18:52,720
involved there's a new document that

558
00:18:57,110 --> 00:18:53,919
comes to light

559
00:18:59,430 --> 00:18:57,120
the wilson documents are they're old

560
00:19:01,590 --> 00:18:59,440
a lot of one of my problems with them is

561
00:19:02,870 --> 00:19:01,600
uh from the get-go is that a lot of the

562
00:19:04,630 --> 00:19:02,880
things that they discuss in those

563
00:19:07,430 --> 00:19:04,640
documents allegedly you know

564
00:19:07,990 --> 00:19:07,440
uh eric davis or others are discussing

565
00:19:10,789 --> 00:19:08,000
with

566
00:19:12,710 --> 00:19:10,799
this admiral about um potential crash

567
00:19:14,870 --> 00:19:12,720
ufos and things uh

568
00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:14,880
the the tropes are old things like the

569
00:19:19,830 --> 00:19:17,760
roswell autopsy or mj12

570
00:19:20,870 --> 00:19:19,840
in my view have been thoroughly debunked

571
00:19:23,909 --> 00:19:20,880
over the years

572
00:19:25,110 --> 00:19:23,919
and so already the content is

573
00:19:28,230 --> 00:19:25,120
questionable

574
00:19:29,669 --> 00:19:28,240
but then when you have everyone involved

575
00:19:32,950 --> 00:19:29,679
with the documents

576
00:19:35,190 --> 00:19:32,960
denying the conversation happened or not

577
00:19:37,430 --> 00:19:35,200
willing to go on the record about the

578
00:19:39,190 --> 00:19:37,440
conversation so for instance

579
00:19:41,270 --> 00:19:39,200
the whole thing is about eric davis and

580
00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:41,280
his conversations he won't go on the

581
00:19:45,669 --> 00:19:43,200
record i've asked him myself

582
00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:45,679
now he he said that yeah i don't want to

583
00:19:49,990 --> 00:19:47,760
talk about it he hasn't denied it

584
00:19:51,669 --> 00:19:50,000
so there may be some sort of notes that

585
00:19:53,909 --> 00:19:51,679
were really his i don't believe

586
00:19:56,789 --> 00:19:53,919
personally that davis is a liar

587
00:19:58,150 --> 00:19:56,799
uh edgar mitchell had these documents

588
00:19:59,669 --> 00:19:58,160
and was involved i don't think edgar

589
00:20:01,750 --> 00:19:59,679
mitchell was a liar

590
00:20:02,870 --> 00:20:01,760
but it doesn't mean any of this stuff is

591
00:20:05,990 --> 00:20:02,880
is reality

592
00:20:08,789 --> 00:20:06,000
i think at the very most it gives

593
00:20:11,029 --> 00:20:08,799
us maybe something some areas of

594
00:20:13,190 --> 00:20:11,039
investigation where we might be able to

595
00:20:14,310 --> 00:20:13,200
shake the trees and get something more

596
00:20:16,950 --> 00:20:14,320
substantial

597
00:20:19,029 --> 00:20:16,960
but that's at best what it is it's maybe

598
00:20:20,630 --> 00:20:19,039
telling us what trees to shake

599
00:20:22,390 --> 00:20:20,640
but i don't feel we should make a big

600
00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:22,400
deal about this document until we have

601
00:20:25,909 --> 00:20:23,760
something to show for it

602
00:20:27,430 --> 00:20:25,919
and right now i think there's absolutely

603
00:20:29,669 --> 00:20:27,440
nothing to show for it

604
00:20:30,549 --> 00:20:29,679
uh richard and i even have this debate

605
00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:30,559
in

606
00:20:37,750 --> 00:20:35,760
pay more attention and my argument was

607
00:20:39,590 --> 00:20:37,760
what is the media going to go with i

608
00:20:41,590 --> 00:20:39,600
haven't written an article on it because

609
00:20:43,990 --> 00:20:41,600
what am i supposed to write that there's

610
00:20:46,390 --> 00:20:44,000
this document that was leaked online

611
00:20:49,110 --> 00:20:46,400
that probably comes from this source

612
00:20:50,230 --> 00:20:49,120
but uh the guys in it all deny that it

613
00:20:53,110 --> 00:20:50,240
happened and even

614
00:20:55,110 --> 00:20:53,120
the main person involved will not admit

615
00:20:58,390 --> 00:20:55,120
that this document comes from him

616
00:21:01,190 --> 00:20:58,400
there's nothing there um it would be

617
00:21:01,669 --> 00:21:01,200
akin to these daily express or daily

618
00:21:04,630 --> 00:21:01,679
star

619
00:21:05,110 --> 00:21:04,640
articles and these tabloids in the uk

620
00:21:07,510 --> 00:21:05,120
that have

621
00:21:08,390 --> 00:21:07,520
zero substance and are all kind of

622
00:21:11,909 --> 00:21:08,400
either

623
00:21:14,549 --> 00:21:11,919
speculative or complete make-believe so

624
00:21:15,990 --> 00:21:14,559
um that's why i'm not as excited i don't

625
00:21:17,669 --> 00:21:16,000
think that this is the biggest leak

626
00:21:19,190 --> 00:21:17,679
in the world or or something that's even

627
00:21:21,750 --> 00:21:19,200
going to be very fruitful

628
00:21:22,310 --> 00:21:21,760
going forward what will be fruitful

629
00:21:24,470 --> 00:21:22,320
though

630
00:21:25,830 --> 00:21:24,480
is kind of like what two the stars are

631
00:21:27,270 --> 00:21:25,840
doing or kind of like what louise

632
00:21:29,350 --> 00:21:27,280
elizondo is doing is

633
00:21:30,630 --> 00:21:29,360
massaging kind of these areas where

634
00:21:33,590 --> 00:21:30,640
they're it they know there

635
00:21:34,630 --> 00:21:33,600
are uh there is information that could

636
00:21:36,950 --> 00:21:34,640
be released

637
00:21:38,630 --> 00:21:36,960
um kind of really bringing these kind of

638
00:21:41,110 --> 00:21:38,640
people into the loop and making them

639
00:21:42,789 --> 00:21:41,120
feel comfortable to share information

640
00:21:44,630 --> 00:21:42,799
and maybe one day there'll be an

641
00:21:46,070 --> 00:21:44,640
environment where admiral wilson will

642
00:21:49,669 --> 00:21:46,080
say you know what guys

643
00:21:51,669 --> 00:21:49,679
i was lying i really did have that

644
00:21:52,390 --> 00:21:51,679
conversation with eric davis and i did

645
00:21:55,750 --> 00:21:52,400
those did

646
00:21:58,230 --> 00:21:55,760
things did happen and even if he does

647
00:21:59,270 --> 00:21:58,240
do that it's very interesting then you

648
00:22:01,190 --> 00:21:59,280
have a story

649
00:22:02,870 --> 00:22:01,200
but unfortunately it still doesn't prove

650
00:22:05,110 --> 00:22:02,880
anything because

651
00:22:07,029 --> 00:22:05,120
again it's just uh you know the alleged

652
00:22:09,669 --> 00:22:07,039
anecdotal information from one person

653
00:22:11,990 --> 00:22:09,679
it's a much more credible person

654
00:22:14,230 --> 00:22:12,000
but he was kind of saying that he didn't

655
00:22:14,789 --> 00:22:14,240
get access to these black projects that

656
00:22:17,750 --> 00:22:14,799
were

657
00:22:19,029 --> 00:22:17,760
ufo or alien related uh in this document

658
00:22:21,590 --> 00:22:19,039
allegedly

659
00:22:23,350 --> 00:22:21,600
even if he was saying you know i there

660
00:22:24,870 --> 00:22:23,360
were these projects i was told but i

661
00:22:26,710 --> 00:22:24,880
couldn't get access

662
00:22:28,710 --> 00:22:26,720
that's very interesting i think that's

663
00:22:29,990 --> 00:22:28,720
akin to the type of great information

664
00:22:31,909 --> 00:22:30,000
we're getting right now

665
00:22:33,430 --> 00:22:31,919
but it doesn't prove anything then we've

666
00:22:35,510 --> 00:22:33,440
got to work on

667
00:22:37,190 --> 00:22:35,520
you know what he says he he saw and

668
00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:37,200
hopefully be able to get some

669
00:22:41,270 --> 00:22:38,880
information there or

670
00:22:41,990 --> 00:22:41,280
get some political action going lately

671
00:22:43,510 --> 00:22:42,000
i've had some

672
00:22:45,669 --> 00:22:43,520
interesting conversations with some

673
00:22:46,549 --> 00:22:45,679
people in the know in intelligence and

674
00:22:48,789 --> 00:22:46,559
otherwise

675
00:22:50,789 --> 00:22:48,799
and they kind of state that one of the

676
00:22:51,430 --> 00:22:50,799
main significant things we have right

677
00:22:53,029 --> 00:22:51,440
now

678
00:22:55,270 --> 00:22:53,039
from the navy admitting that those

679
00:22:58,310 --> 00:22:55,280
videos were real unidentified

680
00:23:00,870 --> 00:22:58,320
and from the uh dod

681
00:23:03,350 --> 00:23:00,880
admitting that they do look into

682
00:23:05,909 --> 00:23:03,360
unidentified and take them seriously

683
00:23:08,230 --> 00:23:05,919
is now that we have now we have some

684
00:23:11,350 --> 00:23:08,240
legal framework with those admissions

685
00:23:13,669 --> 00:23:11,360
to legally go ask and say hey you guys

686
00:23:15,750 --> 00:23:13,679
admit you're looking into unidentified

687
00:23:17,430 --> 00:23:15,760
and that you have these projects

688
00:23:19,270 --> 00:23:17,440
we have a right to know what you're

689
00:23:21,510 --> 00:23:19,280
finding and what you're looking into

690
00:23:23,590 --> 00:23:21,520
and we do have that right and now we

691
00:23:24,230 --> 00:23:23,600
have the legal framework to ask for that

692
00:23:27,270 --> 00:23:24,240
information

693
00:23:28,310 --> 00:23:27,280
and demand it and those are the kind of

694
00:23:30,310 --> 00:23:28,320
things that

695
00:23:31,590 --> 00:23:30,320
should be happening they're happening in

696
00:23:32,870 --> 00:23:31,600
small groups but

697
00:23:35,029 --> 00:23:32,880
you know we just need to be more

698
00:23:37,350 --> 00:23:35,039
sophisticated and intelligent about how

699
00:23:40,230 --> 00:23:37,360
we go about this to be more fruitful

700
00:23:42,310 --> 00:23:40,240
and i think that people like leslie kane

701
00:23:44,789 --> 00:23:42,320
uh lou elizondo and chris mellon and the

702
00:23:47,750 --> 00:23:44,799
ttsa guys who have been very fruitful

703
00:23:49,909 --> 00:23:47,760
um some of the other bigelow affiliated

704
00:23:50,390 --> 00:23:49,919
people such as eric davis or or how put

705
00:23:52,070 --> 00:23:50,400
off

706
00:23:54,710 --> 00:23:52,080
you know they've had success over the

707
00:23:57,990 --> 00:23:54,720
years uh by being careful

708
00:24:00,470 --> 00:23:58,000
by being uh patient and persistent and

709
00:24:02,149 --> 00:24:00,480
that's what we all need to do yeah we

710
00:24:03,029 --> 00:24:02,159
only have one min well actually we have

711
00:24:05,110 --> 00:24:03,039
to go into break

712
00:24:06,710 --> 00:24:05,120
but i was going to talk uh quickly about

713
00:24:09,190 --> 00:24:06,720
the ttsa

714
00:24:11,430 --> 00:24:09,200
uh podcast but we're actually out of

715
00:24:13,669 --> 00:24:11,440
time but they just started one right

716
00:24:14,789 --> 00:24:13,679
yeah yeah they did just start one ttsa

717
00:24:16,870 --> 00:24:14,799
talks and uh

718
00:24:18,470 --> 00:24:16,880
we'll save that for next time you bet

719
00:24:20,470 --> 00:24:18,480
all right alejandro i'll talk to you

720
00:24:22,149 --> 00:24:20,480
soon thank you very much thank you later

721
00:24:23,669 --> 00:24:22,159
yeah all right everyone so we're ready

722
00:24:25,750 --> 00:24:23,679
to go into the break

723
00:24:27,350 --> 00:24:25,760
and uh what i'm gonna do is uh i'm gonna

724
00:24:30,470 --> 00:24:27,360
play a commercial

725
00:24:32,390 --> 00:24:30,480
and uh for the youtube people but we're

726
00:24:35,669 --> 00:24:32,400
all set to go into the break at

727
00:24:40,870 --> 00:24:35,679
kgra radio and we'll be right back

728
00:24:43,909 --> 00:24:42,870
hi everyone this is uh my youtube

729
00:24:47,110 --> 00:24:43,919
commercial

730
00:24:49,669 --> 00:24:47,120
so uh see the painting behind me

731
00:24:50,390 --> 00:24:49,679
i did that this morning and uh that's

732
00:24:53,909 --> 00:24:50,400
going to be

733
00:24:56,870 --> 00:24:53,919
those ufo

734
00:24:59,110 --> 00:24:56,880
paintings i've got 12 of those frames

735
00:25:02,870 --> 00:24:59,120
and 12 of those panels ready

736
00:25:05,269 --> 00:25:02,880
so i do traditional um work

737
00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:05,279
i do abstract this is a ufo mass

738
00:25:10,470 --> 00:25:07,200
sighting

739
00:25:12,149 --> 00:25:10,480
and i love doing abstract actually i'm

740
00:25:13,269 --> 00:25:12,159
having a lot of fun with that and since

741
00:25:15,350 --> 00:25:13,279
the lockdown

742
00:25:16,950 --> 00:25:15,360
i've been painting i painted about 50

743
00:25:19,909 --> 00:25:16,960
paintings i think it is

744
00:25:22,029 --> 00:25:19,919
in these last few months so check out my

745
00:25:23,990 --> 00:25:22,039
website

746
00:25:26,310 --> 00:25:24,000
martinwillisart.com and

747
00:25:27,510 --> 00:25:26,320
right now i have things marked off at

748
00:25:29,510 --> 00:25:27,520
really fifty 50

749
00:25:30,630 --> 00:25:29,520
of what i used to get um at my art

750
00:25:33,909 --> 00:25:30,640
gallery

751
00:25:34,950 --> 00:25:33,919
many years ago so uh check it out and if

752
00:25:39,269 --> 00:25:34,960
you

753
00:25:41,830 --> 00:25:39,279
code ufo

754
00:25:43,830 --> 00:25:41,840
and you'll get an additional 50 percent

755
00:25:45,269 --> 00:25:43,840
off i did this painting last week it's a

756
00:25:47,750 --> 00:25:45,279
local scene

757
00:25:48,710 --> 00:25:47,760
and this painting i did i call it dulce

758
00:25:51,269 --> 00:25:48,720
underground

759
00:25:51,830 --> 00:25:51,279
base i did that last week as well this

760
00:25:55,350 --> 00:25:51,840
is called

761
00:25:57,669 --> 00:25:55,360
newton's third law of motion

762
00:26:00,070 --> 00:25:57,679
anyway uh check out the website and

763
00:26:02,789 --> 00:26:00,080
don't forget to use the code ufo

764
00:26:04,230 --> 00:26:02,799
for additional 50 off there's something

765
00:26:06,630 --> 00:26:04,240
there you really love

766
00:26:07,909 --> 00:26:06,640
and uh you can't afford it uh email me

767
00:26:12,149 --> 00:26:07,919
martin willis

768
00:26:15,269 --> 00:26:12,159
i'm sorry uh martin at podcastufo.com

769
00:26:18,230 --> 00:26:15,279
and uh we will work something out uh

770
00:26:19,350 --> 00:26:18,240
like to get my paintings out there so we

771
00:26:22,549 --> 00:26:19,360
will be back

772
00:26:27,350 --> 00:26:22,559
uh hang in there uh it'll be back in uh

773
00:26:31,669 --> 00:26:29,510
the most infamous unsolved mysteries a

774
00:26:33,830 --> 00:26:31,679
luxury airliner disappeared

775
00:26:35,590 --> 00:26:33,840
60 years ago halfway between san

776
00:26:37,909 --> 00:26:35,600
francisco and hawaii

777
00:26:38,870 --> 00:26:37,919
only on 5 sharon chin shows us the new

778
00:26:41,430 --> 00:26:38,880
discovery

779
00:26:43,510 --> 00:26:41,440
that could bring this cold case buried

780
00:26:46,390 --> 00:26:43,520
deep in the ocean for decades

781
00:26:48,070 --> 00:26:46,400
back to the surface she's the world's

782
00:26:51,190 --> 00:26:48,080
finest commercial airliner

783
00:26:53,750 --> 00:26:51,200
the boeing 377 strata cruiser like this

784
00:26:55,110 --> 00:26:53,760
dubbed the ocean liner of the sky was

785
00:26:56,870 --> 00:26:55,120
known for its luxury

786
00:26:58,789 --> 00:26:56,880
seven course gourmet dinners and

787
00:27:00,390 --> 00:26:58,799
champagne in the cocktail lounge

788
00:27:01,990 --> 00:27:00,400
passengers would go down there for a

789
00:27:05,430 --> 00:27:02,000
drink or smoke

790
00:27:08,149 --> 00:27:05,440
during the flight but on november 8 1957

791
00:27:09,350 --> 00:27:08,159
pan am flight 7 disappeared with 44

792
00:27:11,669 --> 00:27:09,360
people on board

793
00:27:13,909 --> 00:27:11,679
the flight left sfo for hawaii on the

794
00:27:16,470 --> 00:27:13,919
first leg of a round-the-world trip

795
00:27:18,230 --> 00:27:16,480
days later 19 bodies and floating debris

796
00:27:19,190 --> 00:27:18,240
were found hundreds of miles east of

797
00:27:21,990 --> 00:27:19,200
honolulu

798
00:27:23,750 --> 00:27:22,000
and 90 miles off course greg herkin of

799
00:27:24,470 --> 00:27:23,760
santa cruz has been investigating the

800
00:27:25,990 --> 00:27:24,480
mystery

801
00:27:27,909 --> 00:27:26,000
it appeared that there had been an

802
00:27:30,789 --> 00:27:27,919
attempted ditching of the plane

803
00:27:31,990 --> 00:27:30,799
and that the ditching would have been

804
00:27:33,590 --> 00:27:32,000
almost survivable

805
00:27:35,110 --> 00:27:33,600
except that the plane came in at too

806
00:27:37,669 --> 00:27:35,120
steep an angle and

807
00:27:38,470 --> 00:27:37,679
too high a speed the plane itself never

808
00:27:40,389 --> 00:27:38,480
turned up

809
00:27:41,750 --> 00:27:40,399
the government investigation showed no

810
00:27:44,149 --> 00:27:41,760
distress call and no

811
00:27:46,149 --> 00:27:44,159
fire but that didn't explain high levels

812
00:27:47,029 --> 00:27:46,159
of carbon monoxide in several of the

813
00:27:49,269 --> 00:27:47,039
bodies

814
00:27:50,630 --> 00:27:49,279
newspaper headlines blamed a meteor or

815
00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:50,640
an explosion plot

816
00:27:55,029 --> 00:27:52,320
but the government could draw no

817
00:27:56,950 --> 00:27:55,039
conclusions on what caused the accident

818
00:27:58,230 --> 00:27:56,960
greg's favorite fourth grade teacher

819
00:28:00,230 --> 00:27:58,240
died in the accident

820
00:28:02,310 --> 00:28:00,240
as a tribute to her the retired history

821
00:28:04,310 --> 00:28:02,320
professor has been studying the case

822
00:28:05,990 --> 00:28:04,320
along with retired newspaper editor and

823
00:28:08,070 --> 00:28:06,000
publisher ken fortenberry

824
00:28:09,269 --> 00:28:08,080
whose father was the flight's navigator

825
00:28:11,510 --> 00:28:09,279
that's his father

826
00:28:13,510 --> 00:28:11,520
at the controls there using a grant from

827
00:28:15,430 --> 00:28:13,520
pan am historical foundation

828
00:28:18,310 --> 00:28:15,440
greg and ken reviewed the airline's

829
00:28:19,750 --> 00:28:18,320
archives here are three leading theories

830
00:28:21,590 --> 00:28:19,760
there was the possibility that the

831
00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:21,600
purser had brought it down the suicidal

832
00:28:24,470 --> 00:28:22,480
purser

833
00:28:26,310 --> 00:28:24,480
there was the passenger who had all the

834
00:28:27,350 --> 00:28:26,320
life insurance policies and there was

835
00:28:29,669 --> 00:28:27,360
the issue of

836
00:28:31,750 --> 00:28:29,679
mechanical failure in the 1950s there

837
00:28:32,310 --> 00:28:31,760
were no black boxes to shed light on the

838
00:28:34,470 --> 00:28:32,320
crash

839
00:28:36,230 --> 00:28:34,480
but there was an audio tape of radio

840
00:28:37,830 --> 00:28:36,240
transmissions between the cockpit and

841
00:28:39,430 --> 00:28:37,840
air traffic control

842
00:28:41,510 --> 00:28:39,440
experts in advanced technology

843
00:28:44,149 --> 00:28:41,520
deciphered garbled messages

844
00:28:44,950 --> 00:28:44,159
the tape was basically the holy grail of

845
00:28:46,870 --> 00:28:44,960
this search

846
00:28:48,230 --> 00:28:46,880
we didn't find the tape but we did find

847
00:28:50,630 --> 00:28:48,240
the transcript

848
00:28:52,149 --> 00:28:50,640
whoever was broadcasting had said what

849
00:28:55,110 --> 00:28:52,159
about number three engine

850
00:28:55,830 --> 00:28:55,120
was there a fire an explosion we may

851
00:28:57,350 --> 00:28:55,840
never know

852
00:28:59,510 --> 00:28:57,360
it's a fascinating story it's a

853
00:29:00,710 --> 00:28:59,520
fascinating mystery greg hopes that a

854
00:29:03,029 --> 00:29:00,720
robot will someday

855
00:29:05,430 --> 00:29:03,039
scan the wreckage in the pacific some 12

856
00:29:07,430 --> 00:29:05,440
to 14 thousand feet deep and finally

857
00:29:10,070 --> 00:29:07,440
solve the mystery of pan am flight

858
00:29:10,870 --> 00:29:10,080
7. he says the technology is available

859
00:29:13,830 --> 00:29:10,880
but would cost

860
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:13,840
10 thousand dollars a day sharon chin

861
00:29:17,269 --> 00:29:15,600
kpix 5.

862
00:29:19,350 --> 00:29:17,279
greg and ken are trying to find the

863
00:29:20,310 --> 00:29:19,360
audio tape of radio communications with

864
00:29:22,070 --> 00:29:20,320
the cockpit

865
00:29:23,669 --> 00:29:22,080
and if they find new evidence they hope

866
00:29:33,750 --> 00:29:23,679
the ntsb considers

867
00:29:40,710 --> 00:29:36,789
in three two one

868
00:29:41,750 --> 00:29:40,720
go all right welcome back uh this is

869
00:29:45,029 --> 00:29:41,760
martin willis

870
00:29:48,070 --> 00:29:45,039
and uh my guest now uh

871
00:29:48,710 --> 00:29:48,080
is uh ken fortenberry and we're gonna be

872
00:29:51,110 --> 00:29:48,720
talking about

873
00:29:53,990 --> 00:29:51,120
uh on youtube you just saw that clip

874
00:29:55,350 --> 00:29:54,000
interesting clip

875
00:29:57,830 --> 00:29:55,360
sure where that noise is coming from

876
00:30:00,310 --> 00:29:57,840
welcome to the show how you doing ken

877
00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:00,320
how's the ufo it must have been it's

878
00:30:05,909 --> 00:30:03,120
always aliens right

879
00:30:08,230 --> 00:30:05,919
uh welcome to the show ken and uh thanks

880
00:30:09,190 --> 00:30:08,240
for uh thanks for your willingness and

881
00:30:10,789 --> 00:30:09,200
uh uh

882
00:30:12,470 --> 00:30:10,799
first of all i want to say uh that's

883
00:30:16,389 --> 00:30:12,480
heartbreaking you had to grow up without

884
00:30:18,710 --> 00:30:16,399
a father died in a crash uh so long ago

885
00:30:19,669 --> 00:30:18,720
and before that um he had quite an

886
00:30:22,710 --> 00:30:19,679
amazing

887
00:30:24,470 --> 00:30:22,720
uh ufo sighting and uh

888
00:30:25,830 --> 00:30:24,480
you know breezing through your book i

889
00:30:28,950 --> 00:30:25,840
see there was a lot going on

890
00:30:31,269 --> 00:30:28,960
in the particular week in 1957 uh

891
00:30:32,710 --> 00:30:31,279
when the incident happened so first of

892
00:30:33,510 --> 00:30:32,720
all if you wouldn't mind giving your uh

893
00:30:36,310 --> 00:30:33,520
background

894
00:30:37,190 --> 00:30:36,320
and uh a little bit something about

895
00:30:40,310 --> 00:30:37,200
yourself

896
00:30:41,590 --> 00:30:40,320
and uh why you chose uh to write this

897
00:30:42,549 --> 00:30:41,600
book uh that would be a good way to

898
00:30:44,230 --> 00:30:42,559
start

899
00:30:46,470 --> 00:30:44,240
thank you martin for having me on here

900
00:30:50,789 --> 00:30:46,480
this evening um

901
00:30:52,470 --> 00:30:50,799
i thought the my dad hung the moon

902
00:30:55,430 --> 00:30:52,480
and i say that in the beginning of of

903
00:30:56,389 --> 00:30:55,440
this book as you pointed out uh he died

904
00:30:58,789 --> 00:30:56,399
in uh

905
00:31:00,630 --> 00:30:58,799
1957 when the plane went down i was six

906
00:31:02,710 --> 00:31:00,640
years old at the time

907
00:31:04,549 --> 00:31:02,720
and uh i was left with nothing but an

908
00:31:08,310 --> 00:31:04,559
unsolved mystery

909
00:31:10,870 --> 00:31:08,320
and uh by the time i was 14 years old

910
00:31:11,509 --> 00:31:10,880
i decided that i needed some answers as

911
00:31:14,549 --> 00:31:11,519
to how

912
00:31:16,710 --> 00:31:14,559
and why this plane went down so i began

913
00:31:18,470 --> 00:31:16,720
this lifelong journey to try to get some

914
00:31:21,029 --> 00:31:18,480
answers and bring some closure not only

915
00:31:23,990 --> 00:31:21,039
to me and to my family but to the

916
00:31:25,269 --> 00:31:24,000
43 other families who lost people on on

917
00:31:27,029 --> 00:31:25,279
the flight

918
00:31:28,789 --> 00:31:27,039
so when i'm 14 years old i wrote a

919
00:31:29,669 --> 00:31:28,799
letter to the civil aeronautics board

920
00:31:33,350 --> 00:31:29,679
which was the

921
00:31:35,590 --> 00:31:33,360
equivalent to the ntsb today and i got a

922
00:31:36,630 --> 00:31:35,600
kind of a kiss off letter in response

923
00:31:39,750 --> 00:31:36,640
from from the

924
00:31:41,590 --> 00:31:39,760
cab saying that

925
00:31:43,509 --> 00:31:41,600
they had nothing new in their files and

926
00:31:45,350 --> 00:31:43,519
nothing had happened in the

927
00:31:47,190 --> 00:31:45,360
seven years since the plane went down

928
00:31:49,350 --> 00:31:47,200
and that really irritated me even as a

929
00:31:52,549 --> 00:31:49,360
14 year old kid because

930
00:31:54,630 --> 00:31:52,559
the cab report ended by saying that they

931
00:31:57,669 --> 00:31:54,640
could not reach a probable cause

932
00:31:59,029 --> 00:31:57,679
for the plane to go down and more

933
00:32:01,110 --> 00:31:59,039
importantly to me they said the

934
00:32:03,830 --> 00:32:01,120
investigation is continuing

935
00:32:05,509 --> 00:32:03,840
well clearly nothing happened after the

936
00:32:07,669 --> 00:32:05,519
investigative report was

937
00:32:09,110 --> 00:32:07,679
concluded there never was any more

938
00:32:11,430 --> 00:32:09,120
investigation

939
00:32:12,710 --> 00:32:11,440
and that set me off on this lifelong

940
00:32:14,389 --> 00:32:12,720
journey to

941
00:32:16,070 --> 00:32:14,399
to get some answers and it really

942
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:16,080
probably started me on a newspaper

943
00:32:19,269 --> 00:32:18,000
career that i've just retired from a few

944
00:32:21,430 --> 00:32:19,279
years ago i spent

945
00:32:23,110 --> 00:32:21,440
uh 40 years as a newspaper editor and

946
00:32:24,789 --> 00:32:23,120
investigative reporter

947
00:32:26,470 --> 00:32:24,799
chasing down a lot of stories a lot of

948
00:32:29,190 --> 00:32:26,480
different angles but this was the story

949
00:32:31,430 --> 00:32:29,200
that i always had on the back of my mind

950
00:32:34,870 --> 00:32:31,440
and worked incessantly at for

951
00:32:36,389 --> 00:32:34,880
for 50 plus years uh and

952
00:32:38,549 --> 00:32:36,399
this book was just published a couple of

953
00:32:39,669 --> 00:32:38,559
weeks ago and i'm pretty excited about

954
00:32:44,710 --> 00:32:39,679
it

955
00:32:47,110 --> 00:32:44,720
lot of attention

956
00:32:48,950 --> 00:32:47,120
i wish i could say it were it's getting

957
00:32:51,110 --> 00:32:48,960
some fantastic reviews but the

958
00:32:52,870 --> 00:32:51,120
coronavirus is not to help book sales

959
00:32:55,269 --> 00:32:52,880
very much to be honest with you

960
00:32:56,710 --> 00:32:55,279
uh bookstores across the world most of

961
00:32:59,669 --> 00:32:56,720
them are still closed

962
00:33:01,350 --> 00:32:59,679
uh so they're not stock much uh they're

963
00:33:03,190 --> 00:33:01,360
selling on amazon and the publishers

964
00:33:06,070 --> 00:33:03,200
selling them online but uh

965
00:33:06,549 --> 00:33:06,080
it's a tough going right now book sales

966
00:33:11,269 --> 00:33:06,559
yeah

967
00:33:13,430 --> 00:33:11,279
influence of why you became

968
00:33:14,470 --> 00:33:13,440
an investigative uh journalist

969
00:33:16,789 --> 00:33:14,480
absolutely

970
00:33:17,830 --> 00:33:16,799
um you know wanting to move forward and

971
00:33:20,149 --> 00:33:17,840
trying to figure out

972
00:33:21,029 --> 00:33:20,159
uh the bits and pieces that happened now

973
00:33:23,430 --> 00:33:21,039
um

974
00:33:25,190 --> 00:33:23,440
this you know from what i could read

975
00:33:26,630 --> 00:33:25,200
there was a lot of kind of mysterious

976
00:33:28,950 --> 00:33:26,640
things that happened

977
00:33:31,430 --> 00:33:28,960
for one thing it was 90 miles off course

978
00:33:35,110 --> 00:33:31,440
something like that

979
00:33:37,029 --> 00:33:35,120
the the plane uh radioed at uh 5 p.m

980
00:33:38,870 --> 00:33:37,039
martin everything was a-okay they had

981
00:33:40,950 --> 00:33:38,880
just passed what is uh called

982
00:33:42,789 --> 00:33:40,960
the pilots called the point of no return

983
00:33:43,990 --> 00:33:42,799
about midway between san francisco and

984
00:33:46,950 --> 00:33:44,000
honolulu

985
00:33:47,430 --> 00:33:46,960
everything was perfectly fine and uh

986
00:33:50,710 --> 00:33:47,440
then

987
00:33:53,909 --> 00:33:50,720
nothing not another word uh

988
00:33:56,070 --> 00:33:53,919
and ultimately they the search began

989
00:33:57,110 --> 00:33:56,080
and uh more than a week later they found

990
00:33:59,590 --> 00:33:57,120
bits and pieces of

991
00:34:01,269 --> 00:33:59,600
of wreckage and it was more than 90

992
00:34:04,789 --> 00:34:01,279
miles off course

993
00:34:05,509 --> 00:34:04,799
uh so uh this search was was massive at

994
00:34:07,269 --> 00:34:05,519
the time

995
00:34:08,550 --> 00:34:07,279
it was uh considered to be the largest

996
00:34:11,430 --> 00:34:08,560
air sea search

997
00:34:12,310 --> 00:34:11,440
since uh that for amelia earhart and

998
00:34:15,589 --> 00:34:12,320
they had everything

999
00:34:18,629 --> 00:34:15,599
submarines to uh ocean liners to

1000
00:34:21,190 --> 00:34:18,639
passing aircraft of course all the air

1001
00:34:23,190 --> 00:34:21,200
force and the the raf even joined in the

1002
00:34:25,270 --> 00:34:23,200
search looking for survivors and

1003
00:34:27,510 --> 00:34:25,280
of course there were no survivors and

1004
00:34:28,389 --> 00:34:27,520
what was left of a 70-ton aircraft was

1005
00:34:31,589 --> 00:34:28,399
just crated up

1006
00:34:34,869 --> 00:34:31,599
not much left of it and only 19 bodies

1007
00:34:37,510 --> 00:34:34,879
wow and did they never did

1008
00:34:38,710 --> 00:34:37,520
did they find the plane on the bottom

1009
00:34:40,950 --> 00:34:38,720
did i hear that

1010
00:34:42,069 --> 00:34:40,960
okay it seems like there was a you know

1011
00:34:44,310 --> 00:34:42,079
there was another

1012
00:34:46,629 --> 00:34:44,320
youtube video that i watched and i

1013
00:34:48,470 --> 00:34:46,639
believe they made it sound like they

1014
00:34:52,069 --> 00:34:48,480
they found it in some you know that it

1015
00:34:54,230 --> 00:34:52,079
was in thousands of feet of water

1016
00:34:56,629 --> 00:34:54,240
matter of fact i've uh i've talked with

1017
00:34:57,349 --> 00:34:56,639
most of the deep sea oceanic experts

1018
00:34:58,710 --> 00:34:57,359
about uh

1019
00:35:00,550 --> 00:34:58,720
searching for this plane including

1020
00:35:02,470 --> 00:35:00,560
robert ballard's crew and

1021
00:35:04,150 --> 00:35:02,480
and they're all aware of it uh it just

1022
00:35:06,310 --> 00:35:04,160
if we don't have fifty thousand dollars

1023
00:35:08,310 --> 00:35:06,320
a day to assist them in the search

1024
00:35:09,990 --> 00:35:08,320
and if it's not in their uh media

1025
00:35:10,550 --> 00:35:10,000
surgery for something else it just

1026
00:35:13,030 --> 00:35:10,560
doesn't

1027
00:35:14,630 --> 00:35:13,040
pop up but we know enough about the the

1028
00:35:16,390 --> 00:35:14,640
ocean currents and where it went down

1029
00:35:18,230 --> 00:35:16,400
and where the wreckage was found that

1030
00:35:20,310 --> 00:35:18,240
i'm convinced that one day someone's

1031
00:35:24,069 --> 00:35:20,320
going to come across the wreckage

1032
00:35:27,270 --> 00:35:24,079
yeah yeah uh well um it's it's a mystery

1033
00:35:29,910 --> 00:35:27,280
like we had uh a few years ago again

1034
00:35:30,950 --> 00:35:29,920
i can't remember that flight number 70

1035
00:35:32,870 --> 00:35:30,960
370 the

1036
00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:32,880
malaysian air flight yeah that must have

1037
00:35:36,790 --> 00:35:34,560
brought back some memories to you

1038
00:35:37,829 --> 00:35:36,800
it certainly did and every time a plane

1039
00:35:40,630 --> 00:35:37,839
went down

1040
00:35:42,390 --> 00:35:40,640
since i was a kid martin anytime a plane

1041
00:35:45,430 --> 00:35:42,400
went down i just felt

1042
00:35:48,390 --> 00:35:45,440
i just hurt for the families on those

1043
00:35:49,750 --> 00:35:48,400
uh other folks on the plane and that was

1044
00:35:52,230 --> 00:35:49,760
one of the things that drove me

1045
00:35:53,589 --> 00:35:52,240
uh in this case as well and there was a

1046
00:35:55,430 --> 00:35:53,599
particular family

1047
00:35:58,550 --> 00:35:55,440
uh an entire family from midland

1048
00:36:00,069 --> 00:35:58,560
michigan uh who perished on this flight

1049
00:36:01,910 --> 00:36:00,079
and i kept picture of them i have

1050
00:36:03,829 --> 00:36:01,920
pictures now of

1051
00:36:05,190 --> 00:36:03,839
of them and it just those kinds of

1052
00:36:07,670 --> 00:36:05,200
things just drove me

1053
00:36:09,510 --> 00:36:07,680
to not only for myself again to get the

1054
00:36:10,310 --> 00:36:09,520
answers but to get the answers for

1055
00:36:12,069 --> 00:36:10,320
others and

1056
00:36:14,230 --> 00:36:12,079
you know and since i got into this thing

1057
00:36:15,829 --> 00:36:14,240
i've i've run into a number of people a

1058
00:36:17,910 --> 00:36:15,839
couple of them are on here right now as

1059
00:36:21,030 --> 00:36:17,920
a matter of fact the wagon family who

1060
00:36:21,990 --> 00:36:21,040
whose uh dad was uh the first officer on

1061
00:36:23,589 --> 00:36:22,000
the plane

1062
00:36:25,430 --> 00:36:23,599
and i've gotten to know them very well

1063
00:36:27,910 --> 00:36:25,440
they've been very supportive so

1064
00:36:28,630 --> 00:36:27,920
uh it's been a mixed blessing to to do

1065
00:36:31,670 --> 00:36:28,640
this

1066
00:36:32,790 --> 00:36:31,680
uh very frustrating at times but i feel

1067
00:36:36,150 --> 00:36:32,800
good about

1068
00:36:38,069 --> 00:36:36,160
what i've concluded yeah um i actually

1069
00:36:39,510 --> 00:36:38,079
uh i took a sabbatical from what i

1070
00:36:41,510 --> 00:36:39,520
normally do

1071
00:36:42,790 --> 00:36:41,520
for about a year and i was actually a

1072
00:36:46,630 --> 00:36:42,800
flight attendant for

1073
00:36:48,069 --> 00:36:46,640
pan am three and uh but i do remember in

1074
00:36:49,990 --> 00:36:48,079
training there was uh

1075
00:36:51,510 --> 00:36:50,000
something like six or eight weeks of

1076
00:36:54,950 --> 00:36:51,520
training um

1077
00:36:57,670 --> 00:36:54,960
and we were flying the seven twos but um

1078
00:36:58,950 --> 00:36:57,680
the the one thing i do remember and it

1079
00:37:01,109 --> 00:36:58,960
was a

1080
00:37:03,670 --> 00:37:01,119
a terrible statement but i just do

1081
00:37:06,150 --> 00:37:03,680
remember them talking about ditching

1082
00:37:07,270 --> 00:37:06,160
and they said the survival rate on

1083
00:37:10,710 --> 00:37:07,280
ditching is

1084
00:37:12,630 --> 00:37:10,720
three percent wow isn't that amazing

1085
00:37:14,790 --> 00:37:12,640
because you can't you can't not hit the

1086
00:37:18,150 --> 00:37:14,800
water hard and it's like hitting bricks

1087
00:37:19,910 --> 00:37:18,160
yeah it's incredible yeah so uh but

1088
00:37:21,270 --> 00:37:19,920
you know i mean there are instances like

1089
00:37:24,470 --> 00:37:21,280
on the hudson

1090
00:37:25,510 --> 00:37:24,480
uh you know where where uh but it all

1091
00:37:27,670 --> 00:37:25,520
has to do with uh

1092
00:37:28,550 --> 00:37:27,680
the speed and all that you know you know

1093
00:37:30,310 --> 00:37:28,560
you uh

1094
00:37:31,750 --> 00:37:30,320
mentioned the miracle on the hudson and

1095
00:37:32,710 --> 00:37:31,760
i think that's an interesting story

1096
00:37:34,550 --> 00:37:32,720
because

1097
00:37:37,030 --> 00:37:34,560
just a year before my dad's plane

1098
00:37:38,790 --> 00:37:37,040
crashed another boeing strata cruiser

1099
00:37:40,150 --> 00:37:38,800
ditched in the mid pacific at almost the

1100
00:37:41,510 --> 00:37:40,160
same location

1101
00:37:44,150 --> 00:37:41,520
that was the real mirror that was the

1102
00:37:46,150 --> 00:37:44,160
first miracle and it was on the pacific

1103
00:37:47,270 --> 00:37:46,160
hudson but it was at actually this plane

1104
00:37:51,670 --> 00:37:47,280
sister ship

1105
00:37:53,030 --> 00:37:51,680
and 909 333 and my dad's was 90944

1106
00:37:55,829 --> 00:37:53,040
but the other interesting thing that

1107
00:37:58,550 --> 00:37:55,839
everyone survived that uh crash

1108
00:37:59,510 --> 00:37:58,560
they barely got their feet wet yeah they

1109
00:38:01,829 --> 00:37:59,520
lost an engine

1110
00:38:02,870 --> 00:38:01,839
uh and the pilot simply uh knew he

1111
00:38:05,910 --> 00:38:02,880
couldn't get back uh

1112
00:38:07,430 --> 00:38:05,920
to to land and just circled a an

1113
00:38:09,829 --> 00:38:07,440
ocean ship which they called an ocean

1114
00:38:11,990 --> 00:38:09,839
ship the uh coast guard

1115
00:38:13,990 --> 00:38:12,000
navigational ship out in the ocean he

1116
00:38:14,390 --> 00:38:14,000
just circled that ship all night long

1117
00:38:16,870 --> 00:38:14,400
and

1118
00:38:18,790 --> 00:38:16,880
dawn uh they laid some foam down on the

1119
00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:18,800
ocean and he put the plane down and they

1120
00:38:24,390 --> 00:38:20,160
all walked away

1121
00:38:26,069 --> 00:38:24,400
uh and lived happily ever after so um

1122
00:38:27,670 --> 00:38:26,079
the parallels were interesting there to

1123
00:38:30,310 --> 00:38:27,680
me that this plane

1124
00:38:31,670 --> 00:38:30,320
the sister ship went down a year earlier

1125
00:38:31,990 --> 00:38:31,680
and people said well it could have the

1126
00:38:34,390 --> 00:38:32,000
same

1127
00:38:35,190 --> 00:38:34,400
thing happened to your dad's plane well

1128
00:38:38,550 --> 00:38:35,200
maybe so

1129
00:38:40,230 --> 00:38:38,560
but he was also uh their plan also was

1130
00:38:42,310 --> 00:38:40,240
within sight i mean excuse me within

1131
00:38:44,430 --> 00:38:42,320
radio distance of an ocean station

1132
00:38:46,069 --> 00:38:44,440
they could be turned around just as

1133
00:38:48,230 --> 00:38:46,079
n90933 did

1134
00:38:49,910 --> 00:38:48,240
and safely survived that so something

1135
00:38:52,150 --> 00:38:49,920
catastrophic happened

1136
00:38:53,430 --> 00:38:52,160
uh greg mentioned i i saw in the clip

1137
00:38:56,630 --> 00:38:53,440
you played earlier

1138
00:38:58,710 --> 00:38:56,640
about the plane uh probably uh hit the

1139
00:38:59,349 --> 00:38:58,720
ocean at an angle and broke apart and

1140
00:39:01,109 --> 00:38:59,359
that's

1141
00:39:03,190 --> 00:39:01,119
very likely but it still doesn't answer

1142
00:39:05,349 --> 00:39:03,200
what what happened to the plane

1143
00:39:06,630 --> 00:39:05,359
right and uh when you have a multiple

1144
00:39:09,510 --> 00:39:06,640
engine plane

1145
00:39:10,950 --> 00:39:09,520
you have uh you know there you can a lot

1146
00:39:13,109 --> 00:39:10,960
of those planes you can fly in

1147
00:39:14,150 --> 00:39:13,119
like one engine or two engines i don't

1148
00:39:15,990 --> 00:39:14,160
know how many engines that

1149
00:39:17,589 --> 00:39:16,000
we're looking for lane and matter of

1150
00:39:18,390 --> 00:39:17,599
fact the pilots joked about them they

1151
00:39:20,710 --> 00:39:18,400
said

1152
00:39:22,069 --> 00:39:20,720
uh what three engines burning and one

1153
00:39:24,310 --> 00:39:22,079
engine turning

1154
00:39:26,950 --> 00:39:24,320
yeah they had a lot of problems with the

1155
00:39:29,589 --> 00:39:26,960
mechanics mechanicals of that aircraft

1156
00:39:30,630 --> 00:39:29,599
uh and i examined all of those angles uh

1157
00:39:34,390 --> 00:39:30,640
in this book and in

1158
00:39:37,510 --> 00:39:34,400
my investigation yeah um you know i did

1159
00:39:38,310 --> 00:39:37,520
uh i did i want to let the people know

1160
00:39:39,829 --> 00:39:38,320
that there is

1161
00:39:42,710 --> 00:39:39,839
uh you know people listening to the show

1162
00:39:44,870 --> 00:39:42,720
there is kind of a ufo angle to this

1163
00:39:45,750 --> 00:39:44,880
but not only that um there is the

1164
00:39:49,030 --> 00:39:45,760
earlier

1165
00:39:50,470 --> 00:39:49,040
ufo uh that your father experienced

1166
00:39:52,630 --> 00:39:50,480
of course let's see if i'm doing the

1167
00:39:56,150 --> 00:39:52,640
math you were two years old at that time

1168
00:39:59,190 --> 00:39:56,160
um or one or two or barely one actually

1169
00:40:00,069 --> 00:39:59,200
yeah so i have a clip of that too i can

1170
00:40:02,390 --> 00:40:00,079
run but still

1171
00:40:04,710 --> 00:40:02,400
um do you want to uh you want to talk

1172
00:40:07,829 --> 00:40:04,720
about part of the mystery of

1173
00:40:10,150 --> 00:40:07,839
of this particular week there was you

1174
00:40:13,589 --> 00:40:10,160
know i heard about 1952

1175
00:40:14,309 --> 00:40:13,599
the ufo wave of 1952. but i never heard

1176
00:40:17,190 --> 00:40:14,319
of this

1177
00:40:18,790 --> 00:40:17,200
in 1957 all these things going on it was

1178
00:40:20,550 --> 00:40:18,800
amazing

1179
00:40:22,069 --> 00:40:20,560
it really was and and some people call

1180
00:40:22,309 --> 00:40:22,079
it a great sighting week and some of

1181
00:40:23,829 --> 00:40:22,319
them

1182
00:40:26,630 --> 00:40:23,839
make that reference again to the same

1183
00:40:30,230 --> 00:40:26,640
thing in 1952

1184
00:40:32,950 --> 00:40:30,240
but in this particular week in 1957

1185
00:40:33,829 --> 00:40:32,960
so many things were happening in the ufo

1186
00:40:36,829 --> 00:40:33,839
world

1187
00:40:38,230 --> 00:40:36,839
uh in a number of incidents involving

1188
00:40:39,910 --> 00:40:38,240
aircraft

1189
00:40:41,670 --> 00:40:39,920
and i begin this book as a matter of

1190
00:40:45,190 --> 00:40:41,680
fact with a story

1191
00:40:48,230 --> 00:40:45,200
about a two fellows in new mexico

1192
00:40:49,190 --> 00:40:48,240
excuse me level and texas whose car was

1193
00:40:50,710 --> 00:40:49,200
disabled

1194
00:40:52,550 --> 00:40:50,720
as they were riding along at country

1195
00:40:53,910 --> 00:40:52,560
road one evening and the week before the

1196
00:40:55,829 --> 00:40:53,920
plane went down

1197
00:40:57,910 --> 00:40:55,839
and the car was totally disabled the

1198
00:40:58,550 --> 00:40:57,920
engine died and these guys just freaked

1199
00:41:00,230 --> 00:40:58,560
out

1200
00:41:02,390 --> 00:41:00,240
they jumped into a ditch and didn't know

1201
00:41:06,390 --> 00:41:02,400
what the hell was going on there

1202
00:41:08,950 --> 00:41:06,400
uh and once this ufo got out of sight

1203
00:41:10,550 --> 00:41:08,960
the engine miraculously recovered they

1204
00:41:13,430 --> 00:41:10,560
drove to a phone booth called the

1205
00:41:15,030 --> 00:41:13,440
sheriff's office and made this report

1206
00:41:16,230 --> 00:41:15,040
the officer at the sheriff's office

1207
00:41:18,470 --> 00:41:16,240
thought they were a couple saturday

1208
00:41:19,829 --> 00:41:18,480
night drunks and and kissed them off

1209
00:41:21,430 --> 00:41:19,839
but then a few minutes later they

1210
00:41:22,150 --> 00:41:21,440
started getting more reports and more

1211
00:41:23,910 --> 00:41:22,160
reports

1212
00:41:25,829 --> 00:41:23,920
and i think before the evening was over

1213
00:41:27,829 --> 00:41:25,839
there was more maybe a dozen or so

1214
00:41:28,710 --> 00:41:27,839
reports even including law enforcement

1215
00:41:31,910 --> 00:41:28,720
officers

1216
00:41:35,190 --> 00:41:31,920
who saw the same thing and repeated

1217
00:41:37,109 --> 00:41:35,200
incidents of engines being disabled

1218
00:41:40,630 --> 00:41:37,119
and then this same week again in 19

1219
00:41:44,550 --> 00:41:40,640
november 1957

1220
00:41:45,510 --> 00:41:44,560
a washington dc was the site of a number

1221
00:41:48,309 --> 00:41:45,520
of ufo

1222
00:41:49,190 --> 00:41:48,319
sightings and in fact it was uh it was

1223
00:41:50,710 --> 00:41:49,200
so bad that

1224
00:41:53,349 --> 00:41:50,720
there were so many sightings in fact

1225
00:41:54,870 --> 00:41:53,359
that the the fbi excuse me the federal

1226
00:41:56,390 --> 00:41:54,880
government decided we've got to put out

1227
00:41:58,069 --> 00:41:56,400
some kind of cover story and as they

1228
00:41:59,349 --> 00:41:58,079
always did they just discounted the

1229
00:42:00,550 --> 00:41:59,359
people's sightings

1230
00:42:03,030 --> 00:42:00,560
and said they were pretty much out of

1231
00:42:06,630 --> 00:42:03,040
their minds or it was a sputnik or

1232
00:42:08,950 --> 00:42:06,640
it was uh you know inversion of gases

1233
00:42:10,790 --> 00:42:08,960
all kinds of explanations but this

1234
00:42:13,510 --> 00:42:10,800
particular week just had

1235
00:42:14,230 --> 00:42:13,520
so many sightings that again it became

1236
00:42:16,470 --> 00:42:14,240
known as the

1237
00:42:18,630 --> 00:42:16,480
is the great siding week and in fact let

1238
00:42:20,790 --> 00:42:18,640
me just share with you that uh

1239
00:42:22,550 --> 00:42:20,800
in i think a couple of days before my

1240
00:42:25,670 --> 00:42:22,560
dad's plane went down

1241
00:42:29,109 --> 00:42:25,680
a uh varag airliner flying in uh

1242
00:42:30,550 --> 00:42:29,119
south america uh the pilot said he saw a

1243
00:42:32,150 --> 00:42:30,560
red object

1244
00:42:33,670 --> 00:42:32,160
outside the cockpit and said what you

1245
00:42:36,470 --> 00:42:33,680
know what the hell is that

1246
00:42:38,390 --> 00:42:36,480
and he his his co-pilot looked at it and

1247
00:42:41,430 --> 00:42:38,400
they both spotted it and

1248
00:42:43,510 --> 00:42:41,440
within seconds uh they said that a smell

1249
00:42:44,950 --> 00:42:43,520
came into their cockpit and their yes

1250
00:42:47,349 --> 00:42:44,960
many of their instruments were frozen

1251
00:42:49,670 --> 00:42:47,359
were fried excuse me were fried

1252
00:42:51,109 --> 00:42:49,680
and they were naturally frightened but

1253
00:42:52,790 --> 00:42:51,119
they were also concerned about getting

1254
00:42:53,109 --> 00:42:52,800
this getting back to safety they made

1255
00:43:05,990 --> 00:42:53,119
the

1256
00:43:07,430 --> 00:43:06,000
months before that so airliners

1257
00:43:09,270 --> 00:43:07,440
have a history a number of airliners

1258
00:43:11,829 --> 00:43:09,280
have a history of of being

1259
00:43:13,910 --> 00:43:11,839
interfered with with by something some

1260
00:43:15,430 --> 00:43:13,920
kind of electromagnetic interference

1261
00:43:18,309 --> 00:43:15,440
yeah and of course that was something

1262
00:43:19,750 --> 00:43:18,319
that intrigued me in this story as well

1263
00:43:22,309 --> 00:43:19,760
yeah there's uh there's a number of

1264
00:43:24,470 --> 00:43:22,319
stories whether it's cars

1265
00:43:25,349 --> 00:43:24,480
uh whether uh you know planes you don't

1266
00:43:27,670 --> 00:43:25,359
hear about

1267
00:43:29,109 --> 00:43:27,680
a lot but and when i was skimming

1268
00:43:31,670 --> 00:43:29,119
through your book i saw there was

1269
00:43:33,270 --> 00:43:31,680
there was a number of incidents that uh

1270
00:43:33,829 --> 00:43:33,280
there were some issues the one you just

1271
00:43:37,510 --> 00:43:33,839
mentioned

1272
00:43:39,990 --> 00:43:37,520
and and others i'm sorry

1273
00:43:41,349 --> 00:43:40,000
no go ahead i was thinking that when i

1274
00:43:43,430 --> 00:43:41,359
was looking at this i

1275
00:43:44,550 --> 00:43:43,440
examined everything i could possibly

1276
00:43:46,470 --> 00:43:44,560
look at beyond

1277
00:43:48,230 --> 00:43:46,480
the obvious angles and when i was

1278
00:43:51,349 --> 00:43:48,240
looking at the ufo angles

1279
00:43:53,109 --> 00:43:51,359
i found another case in july 1959 when

1280
00:43:55,670 --> 00:43:53,119
another boeing strata cruiser

1281
00:43:56,870 --> 00:43:55,680
the same aircraft as my dad's this

1282
00:43:58,550 --> 00:43:56,880
fellow was flying

1283
00:44:00,630 --> 00:43:58,560
same kind of route san francisco to

1284
00:44:02,790 --> 00:44:00,640
honolulu captain george wilson

1285
00:44:04,630 --> 00:44:02,800
uh and this mysterious object came out

1286
00:44:06,550 --> 00:44:04,640
of the sky from nowhere

1287
00:44:08,150 --> 00:44:06,560
he says faster than anything he'd ever

1288
00:44:09,109 --> 00:44:08,160
seen of something like he'd never seen

1289
00:44:10,710 --> 00:44:09,119
before

1290
00:44:12,150 --> 00:44:10,720
he said it didn't the lights didn't have

1291
00:44:13,510 --> 00:44:12,160
any kind of color on him or

1292
00:44:15,190 --> 00:44:13,520
anything he said it just felt like i was

1293
00:44:16,069 --> 00:44:15,200
looking at a piece of the sun all of a

1294
00:44:18,230 --> 00:44:16,079
sudden

1295
00:44:20,230 --> 00:44:18,240
and uh he said it watched it for about

1296
00:44:21,349 --> 00:44:20,240
10 seconds and it made an abrupt 90

1297
00:44:23,270 --> 00:44:21,359
degree turn which

1298
00:44:24,470 --> 00:44:23,280
a human could not have made it at that

1299
00:44:27,349 --> 00:44:24,480
speed

1300
00:44:27,750 --> 00:44:27,359
and wilson was he was a 17-year veteran

1301
00:44:30,550 --> 00:44:27,760
of pan

1302
00:44:32,069 --> 00:44:30,560
am he served in the military uh and he

1303
00:44:35,030 --> 00:44:32,079
was not a believer

1304
00:44:37,109 --> 00:44:35,040
uh and extraterrestrial life and after

1305
00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:37,119
this incident he was

1306
00:44:40,950 --> 00:44:39,520
yeah yeah um i've talked to you know

1307
00:44:43,109 --> 00:44:40,960
i've talked to a lot of pilots

1308
00:44:44,550 --> 00:44:43,119
and um you know because of the

1309
00:44:47,750 --> 00:44:44,560
connection that i had

1310
00:44:49,910 --> 00:44:47,760
and um you know none of them have ever

1311
00:44:51,030 --> 00:44:49,920
admitted to seeing anything but they

1312
00:44:54,150 --> 00:44:51,040
have friends

1313
00:44:57,430 --> 00:44:54,160
they

1314
00:45:00,390 --> 00:44:57,440
i did talk

1315
00:45:01,670 --> 00:45:00,400
i've spoken on this show before that i

1316
00:45:05,030 --> 00:45:01,680
did speak with a

1317
00:45:05,750 --> 00:45:05,040
american airlines uh a captain that was

1318
00:45:16,470 --> 00:45:05,760
uh

1319
00:45:18,630 --> 00:45:16,480
taboo to the report absolutely and you

1320
00:45:21,030 --> 00:45:18,640
know i we may get into this uh

1321
00:45:21,910 --> 00:45:21,040
conversation later about my dad's 1952

1322
00:45:24,950 --> 00:45:21,920
sighting but

1323
00:45:25,510 --> 00:45:24,960
pilots were discouraged uh from talking

1324
00:45:27,750 --> 00:45:25,520
about

1325
00:45:28,870 --> 00:45:27,760
any sightings uh and they want to keep

1326
00:45:31,750 --> 00:45:28,880
their jobs

1327
00:45:32,630 --> 00:45:31,760
so uh matter of fact my dad to my

1328
00:45:35,030 --> 00:45:32,640
knowledge and i was

1329
00:45:36,790 --> 00:45:35,040
very young when he died as you know uh

1330
00:45:39,109 --> 00:45:36,800
he didn't talk about that he and

1331
00:45:40,870 --> 00:45:39,119
the pilot that he flew with on that 1952

1332
00:45:43,109 --> 00:45:40,880
fight wrote an article for a

1333
00:45:44,630 --> 00:45:43,119
true magazine but to my knowledge he he

1334
00:45:46,710 --> 00:45:44,640
never spoke about it again he loved his

1335
00:45:47,589 --> 00:45:46,720
job with pan am too much to jeopardize

1336
00:45:50,230 --> 00:45:47,599
it by

1337
00:45:51,670 --> 00:45:50,240
by speaking publicly about it uh pilot

1338
00:45:53,109 --> 00:45:51,680
and that today i don't think they do

1339
00:45:55,589 --> 00:45:53,119
that very much either

1340
00:45:56,950 --> 00:45:55,599
yeah i just posting up on youtube right

1341
00:45:59,349 --> 00:45:56,960
now the true magazine

1342
00:46:00,390 --> 00:45:59,359
clip but hey um while we're talking

1343
00:46:04,069 --> 00:46:00,400
about the

1344
00:46:04,870 --> 00:46:04,079
uh 1952 sighting um you mind if i play

1345
00:46:06,630 --> 00:46:04,880
that clip

1346
00:46:08,630 --> 00:46:06,640
there's a clip that explains it all

1347
00:46:11,349 --> 00:46:08,640
right everyone so uh this is a clip

1348
00:46:12,390 --> 00:46:11,359
about uh the what's called the nash uh

1349
00:46:16,550 --> 00:46:12,400
fortenberry

1350
00:46:18,950 --> 00:46:16,560
uh ufo sighting back in 1952

1351
00:46:20,710 --> 00:46:18,960
this is ken's dad this the story is

1352
00:46:23,670 --> 00:46:20,720
about right now

1353
00:46:26,470 --> 00:46:23,680
on july 14th the pilot and co-pilot of a

1354
00:46:28,870 --> 00:46:26,480
pan am flight off the coast of virginia

1355
00:46:29,910 --> 00:46:28,880
watched six bright orange discs flying

1356
00:46:32,950 --> 00:46:29,920
in a line

1357
00:46:34,870 --> 00:46:32,960
flip on edge get joined in their echelon

1358
00:46:37,270 --> 00:46:34,880
by another two discs

1359
00:46:39,750 --> 00:46:37,280
and disappear off into the distance at a

1360
00:46:43,670 --> 00:46:39,760
speed they clocked at an astounding 12

1361
00:46:45,510 --> 00:46:43,680
000 miles an hour

1362
00:46:47,829 --> 00:46:45,520
donald menzel would toss out many

1363
00:46:50,390 --> 00:46:47,839
explanations for the nash fortenberry

1364
00:46:55,750 --> 00:46:53,589
that old standby meteors was one it's an

1365
00:46:55,990 --> 00:46:55,760
interesting irony that the scientists of

1366
00:46:59,109 --> 00:46:56,000
the

1367
00:47:02,470 --> 00:46:59,119
18th century couldn't accept that rocks

1368
00:47:06,390 --> 00:47:04,790
menzel also suggested searchlights

1369
00:47:07,990 --> 00:47:06,400
playing on clouds

1370
00:47:09,910 --> 00:47:08,000
although a quick check of the weather

1371
00:47:11,430 --> 00:47:09,920
would have shown it was a cloudless

1372
00:47:13,190 --> 00:47:11,440
night

1373
00:47:15,829 --> 00:47:13,200
then he tossed out reflections in the

1374
00:47:18,390 --> 00:47:15,839
cockpit glass of lighted cigarettes

1375
00:47:19,990 --> 00:47:18,400
in the passenger cabin and finally in

1376
00:47:20,950 --> 00:47:20,000
what may have been a stretch for the

1377
00:47:23,510 --> 00:47:20,960
ages

1378
00:47:27,589 --> 00:47:23,520
fireflies trapped between the windshield

1379
00:47:31,750 --> 00:47:29,670
but the nash fortenberry incident was

1380
00:47:33,430 --> 00:47:31,760
just a harbinger of what was to come

1381
00:47:35,349 --> 00:47:33,440
less than a week later

1382
00:47:37,589 --> 00:47:35,359
with a series of events that would

1383
00:47:42,230 --> 00:47:37,599
completely change the history

1384
00:47:48,309 --> 00:47:45,349
yeah so back to that uh that kind of is

1385
00:47:49,190 --> 00:47:48,319
kind of in a nutshell uh what happened

1386
00:47:51,270 --> 00:47:49,200
but

1387
00:47:52,230 --> 00:47:51,280
what did you hear about this story did

1388
00:47:54,470 --> 00:47:52,240
your

1389
00:47:56,549 --> 00:47:54,480
mother talk about it later on in life or

1390
00:47:59,589 --> 00:47:56,559
how did you know about it

1391
00:48:01,109 --> 00:47:59,599
never uh martin was very strange again i

1392
00:48:05,030 --> 00:48:01,119
think it was simply the the pan

1393
00:48:08,390 --> 00:48:05,040
am the fear of offending anyone pan am

1394
00:48:09,589 --> 00:48:08,400
and i to my knowledge um she never

1395
00:48:12,870 --> 00:48:09,599
talked about it

1396
00:48:14,870 --> 00:48:12,880
um she did tell me briefly about uh him

1397
00:48:17,270 --> 00:48:14,880
he and captain nash being cornered by

1398
00:48:19,190 --> 00:48:17,280
the uh air force intelligence officers

1399
00:48:21,670 --> 00:48:19,200
when they got back to miami and

1400
00:48:23,030 --> 00:48:21,680
and about that experience a bit but uh

1401
00:48:23,430 --> 00:48:23,040
it was something that was never talked

1402
00:48:26,230 --> 00:48:23,440
about

1403
00:48:26,630 --> 00:48:26,240
around the house uh i i can tell you

1404
00:48:29,750 --> 00:48:26,640
this

1405
00:48:30,870 --> 00:48:29,760
that that my knowledge of some of my

1406
00:48:32,549 --> 00:48:30,880
dad's comments

1407
00:48:34,470 --> 00:48:32,559
and some of his letters home through the

1408
00:48:36,230 --> 00:48:34,480
years and uh and certainly

1409
00:48:37,589 --> 00:48:36,240
i've gotten enough got to know captain

1410
00:48:39,990 --> 00:48:37,599
nash later

1411
00:48:41,670 --> 00:48:40,000
both these fellas were absolutely

1412
00:48:43,990 --> 00:48:41,680
convinced that

1413
00:48:45,829 --> 00:48:44,000
what they saw was something that was

1414
00:48:48,069 --> 00:48:45,839
operated by

1415
00:48:49,670 --> 00:48:48,079
people excuse me creatures or whatever

1416
00:48:51,990 --> 00:48:49,680
you want to call them

1417
00:48:53,510 --> 00:48:52,000
who are far superior intelligence to uh

1418
00:48:56,630 --> 00:48:53,520
than us

1419
00:49:00,470 --> 00:48:56,640
oh yeah yeah um so

1420
00:49:02,069 --> 00:49:00,480
uh about this um that's so frustrating

1421
00:49:03,829 --> 00:49:02,079
some of the comments

1422
00:49:05,349 --> 00:49:03,839
that they were saying you know the

1423
00:49:07,510 --> 00:49:05,359
fireflies

1424
00:49:08,790 --> 00:49:07,520
that's one i remembered reading i don't

1425
00:49:11,190 --> 00:49:08,800
know maybe eight eight

1426
00:49:12,230 --> 00:49:11,200
or nine years ago and thinking how you

1427
00:49:14,549 --> 00:49:12,240
know it's basically

1428
00:49:15,670 --> 00:49:14,559
kind of the ridiculous things that uh

1429
00:49:17,510 --> 00:49:15,680
people come up with

1430
00:49:18,870 --> 00:49:17,520
so they had they clocked this thing

1431
00:49:20,950 --> 00:49:18,880
going away at 12

1432
00:49:22,470 --> 00:49:20,960
000 miles an hour or they thought it you

1433
00:49:25,109 --> 00:49:22,480
know they kind of estimated

1434
00:49:27,030 --> 00:49:25,119
but uh a firefly doesn't do that neither

1435
00:49:28,549 --> 00:49:27,040
does cigarette butts

1436
00:49:30,630 --> 00:49:28,559
but it's kind of funny everyone smoked

1437
00:49:32,150 --> 00:49:30,640
on the planes back then you know one of

1438
00:49:33,670 --> 00:49:32,160
the things i think is remarkable about

1439
00:49:36,150 --> 00:49:33,680
this sighting first is you have to

1440
00:49:39,589 --> 00:49:36,160
recognize that this was the first

1441
00:49:41,109 --> 00:49:39,599
sighting that was above a ufo

1442
00:49:42,710 --> 00:49:41,119
all the sightings before had been from

1443
00:49:46,309 --> 00:49:42,720
the from the ground

1444
00:49:49,270 --> 00:49:46,319
or below ufo so nash and my dads

1445
00:49:49,750 --> 00:49:49,280
were flying above the flying saucers and

1446
00:49:51,349 --> 00:49:49,760
uh

1447
00:49:52,630 --> 00:49:51,359
you know both of these guys were not the

1448
00:49:53,750 --> 00:49:52,640
kind of fellows who were prone to

1449
00:49:55,270 --> 00:49:53,760
fantasy uh

1450
00:49:57,589 --> 00:49:55,280
both of them were navy world war two

1451
00:50:00,710 --> 00:49:57,599
aviation uh veterans

1452
00:50:02,790 --> 00:50:00,720
and uh and and captain nash uh

1453
00:50:03,990 --> 00:50:02,800
was a brilliant man absolutely brilliant

1454
00:50:06,069 --> 00:50:04,000
man uh

1455
00:50:08,630 --> 00:50:06,079
and they both as soon as this was over

1456
00:50:09,670 --> 00:50:08,640
with uh the captain of the flight was uh

1457
00:50:11,670 --> 00:50:09,680
had been in the back doing some

1458
00:50:14,150 --> 00:50:11,680
paperwork he came back up to the

1459
00:50:14,790 --> 00:50:14,160
to the cockpit and my dad and captain

1460
00:50:17,190 --> 00:50:14,800
nash

1461
00:50:19,430 --> 00:50:17,200
then sat about set about documenting

1462
00:50:21,510 --> 00:50:19,440
everything they had seen and plotting

1463
00:50:22,630 --> 00:50:21,520
uh the speed and all the details they

1464
00:50:24,069 --> 00:50:22,640
could because they knew that when they

1465
00:50:25,589 --> 00:50:24,079
got back to miami they were going to

1466
00:50:27,829 --> 00:50:25,599
have to answer questions

1467
00:50:29,589 --> 00:50:27,839
for what they had seen and and to this

1468
00:50:32,230 --> 00:50:29,599
day it remains one of the most

1469
00:50:35,910 --> 00:50:32,240
remarkably documented ufo sightings

1470
00:50:37,910 --> 00:50:35,920
in in history um while i was researching

1471
00:50:40,470 --> 00:50:37,920
my book one of the things that i i came

1472
00:50:41,910 --> 00:50:40,480
across a lot of information uh

1473
00:50:44,230 --> 00:50:41,920
one of them that particularly made me

1474
00:50:46,390 --> 00:50:44,240
happy was uh one of the original

1475
00:50:48,790 --> 00:50:46,400
documents from the air force

1476
00:50:50,710 --> 00:50:48,800
and the other intelligence officers from

1477
00:50:51,510 --> 00:50:50,720
the office of scientific intelligence

1478
00:50:53,109 --> 00:50:51,520
which was a

1479
00:50:54,710 --> 00:50:53,119
division of the central intelligence

1480
00:50:57,430 --> 00:50:54,720
agency at the time

1481
00:50:59,030 --> 00:50:57,440
and in this particular document i like

1482
00:50:59,510 --> 00:50:59,040
this particular quote let me read it to

1483
00:51:02,150 --> 00:50:59,520
you

1484
00:51:03,190 --> 00:51:02,160
the two pilots are both men of

1485
00:51:05,750 --> 00:51:03,200
apparently

1486
00:51:06,790 --> 00:51:05,760
high integrity and above average

1487
00:51:09,990 --> 00:51:06,800
intelligence

1488
00:51:12,870 --> 00:51:10,000
both have several years of experience uh

1489
00:51:13,349 --> 00:51:12,880
and they detail some of what uh the

1490
00:51:16,069 --> 00:51:13,359
their

1491
00:51:16,470 --> 00:51:16,079
own investigation and interrogation

1492
00:51:19,109 --> 00:51:16,480
among

1493
00:51:20,069 --> 00:51:19,119
my father and captain nash he concludes

1494
00:51:22,150 --> 00:51:20,079
with this

1495
00:51:24,390 --> 00:51:22,160
the observers are considered reliable

1496
00:51:26,069 --> 00:51:24,400
and evidently they saw exactly what they

1497
00:51:29,190 --> 00:51:26,079
described

1498
00:51:31,270 --> 00:51:29,200
um to me

1499
00:51:32,470 --> 00:51:31,280
that says it all you have two fellows

1500
00:51:34,390 --> 00:51:32,480
who are intelligent

1501
00:51:36,309 --> 00:51:34,400
and and they they documented what they

1502
00:51:38,549 --> 00:51:36,319
saw they uh

1503
00:51:41,030 --> 00:51:38,559
were questioned uh separately when they

1504
00:51:44,309 --> 00:51:41,040
got to miami by the intelligence people

1505
00:51:45,910 --> 00:51:44,319
they both had the same story uh and uh

1506
00:51:49,349 --> 00:51:45,920
again to this day it's uh

1507
00:51:52,390 --> 00:51:49,359
one of the mysteries of ufology yeah

1508
00:51:55,349 --> 00:51:52,400
yeah um one of the uh key things

1509
00:51:56,390 --> 00:51:55,359
is um you just mentioned is to interview

1510
00:51:59,109 --> 00:51:56,400
people separately

1511
00:51:59,430 --> 00:51:59,119
that's uh that's what anyone um does

1512
00:52:02,549 --> 00:51:59,440
that

1513
00:52:05,109 --> 00:52:02,559
investigates a ufo uh uh i've got a

1514
00:52:08,630 --> 00:52:05,119
great story about um

1515
00:52:10,390 --> 00:52:08,640
this uh person in uh sweden named claus

1516
00:52:13,510 --> 00:52:10,400
vaughn he uh heads the

1517
00:52:14,630 --> 00:52:13,520
ufo uh or he used to anyway the ufo

1518
00:52:18,150 --> 00:52:14,640
association in

1519
00:52:21,109 --> 00:52:18,160
sweden and him and his wife had a ufo

1520
00:52:23,109 --> 00:52:21,119
sighting and while they were driving

1521
00:52:24,150 --> 00:52:23,119
home they were on their way home after a

1522
00:52:26,790 --> 00:52:24,160
night out

1523
00:52:29,510 --> 00:52:26,800
and he said to his wife don't don't say

1524
00:52:32,870 --> 00:52:31,589
so he and he gets home he says okay you

1525
00:52:34,630 --> 00:52:32,880
go in that room

1526
00:52:36,230 --> 00:52:34,640
and i'll go in this room and you write

1527
00:52:37,510 --> 00:52:36,240
exactly what you saw and i'll write

1528
00:52:39,430 --> 00:52:37,520
exactly what i saw

1529
00:52:40,950 --> 00:52:39,440
it really makes uh it really makes a bit

1530
00:52:41,589 --> 00:52:40,960
a big difference i think that's a good

1531
00:52:44,309 --> 00:52:41,599
lesson for

1532
00:52:46,790 --> 00:52:44,319
anyone that's uh uh there's multiple

1533
00:52:48,230 --> 00:52:46,800
witnesses of a sighting absolutely

1534
00:52:49,990 --> 00:52:48,240
you know another thing from that

1535
00:52:51,430 --> 00:52:50,000
interview with the uh the federal

1536
00:52:55,430 --> 00:52:51,440
authorities at the time

1537
00:52:56,790 --> 00:52:55,440
is that bill captain nash my dad both

1538
00:52:59,670 --> 00:52:56,800
discussed before they went into the

1539
00:53:03,190 --> 00:52:59,680
interview separately be sure to ask

1540
00:53:04,549 --> 00:53:03,200
these fellas about other ufo sightings

1541
00:53:06,630 --> 00:53:04,559
let's see if we can get them to say

1542
00:53:10,950 --> 00:53:06,640
something about this uh

1543
00:53:12,790 --> 00:53:10,960
and my dad did bill nash forgot to

1544
00:53:14,630 --> 00:53:12,800
my dad told bill that one of the

1545
00:53:17,750 --> 00:53:14,640
officers told him

1546
00:53:19,589 --> 00:53:17,760
yes we have plenty of reports of these

1547
00:53:21,109 --> 00:53:19,599
and then my dad supposedly asked him

1548
00:53:22,470 --> 00:53:21,119
about what do you have at wright

1549
00:53:25,910 --> 00:53:22,480
patterson as in

1550
00:53:27,990 --> 00:53:25,920
uh ufo evidence and the guy said to him

1551
00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:28,000
well do we have something there

1552
00:53:31,109 --> 00:53:30,000
so when bill and my dad were brought

1553
00:53:32,870 --> 00:53:31,119
back together

1554
00:53:34,630 --> 00:53:32,880
bill for had forgotten to ask the

1555
00:53:36,309 --> 00:53:34,640
question he asked the question with my

1556
00:53:37,030 --> 00:53:36,319
dad and all the other officers in the

1557
00:53:39,109 --> 00:53:37,040
room

1558
00:53:41,270 --> 00:53:39,119
what about other reports and what is it

1559
00:53:43,270 --> 00:53:41,280
you might have it at uh

1560
00:53:45,190 --> 00:53:43,280
at wright patterson and the senior

1561
00:53:47,430 --> 00:53:45,200
officer looked away from bill and looked

1562
00:53:51,190 --> 00:53:47,440
at all the other officers and he said no

1563
00:53:55,030 --> 00:53:51,200
nothing ah and they all clammed up

1564
00:53:57,430 --> 00:53:55,040
yeah yeah well uh i i'm sure

1565
00:53:58,470 --> 00:53:57,440
uh no one's ever gonna spill the beans

1566
00:54:01,190 --> 00:53:58,480
about that

1567
00:54:02,309 --> 00:54:01,200
um and who knows you know there's all

1568
00:54:05,349 --> 00:54:02,319
kinds of stories about

1569
00:54:07,349 --> 00:54:05,359
roswell associated with that uh right

1570
00:54:10,309 --> 00:54:07,359
field at the time it was called

1571
00:54:10,710 --> 00:54:10,319
and uh and then other uh other incidents

1572
00:54:14,950 --> 00:54:10,720
and

1573
00:54:16,870 --> 00:54:14,960
some type of connection

1574
00:54:18,150 --> 00:54:16,880
there i've said a number of times on the

1575
00:54:21,510 --> 00:54:18,160
show that uh

1576
00:54:23,910 --> 00:54:21,520
uh they probably uh do not

1577
00:54:25,670 --> 00:54:23,920
you know my my thoughts are is that the

1578
00:54:28,390 --> 00:54:25,680
government probably doesn't know

1579
00:54:29,109 --> 00:54:28,400
any more about what's going on than we

1580
00:54:31,349 --> 00:54:29,119
do maybe

1581
00:54:33,109 --> 00:54:31,359
maybe a little bit more but i don't

1582
00:54:35,910 --> 00:54:33,119
think that they have the answers

1583
00:54:38,150 --> 00:54:35,920
and uh so why why talk about it if you

1584
00:54:38,950 --> 00:54:38,160
don't have an answer right let me add

1585
00:54:40,549 --> 00:54:38,960
something about

1586
00:54:42,549 --> 00:54:40,559
captain nash he just died a couple of

1587
00:54:45,750 --> 00:54:42,559
years ago uh martin

1588
00:54:48,390 --> 00:54:45,760
and he retired uh a 30 year plus

1589
00:54:49,430 --> 00:54:48,400
30 plus year career with pan am one of

1590
00:54:52,069 --> 00:54:49,440
the most brilliant men

1591
00:54:53,109 --> 00:54:52,079
ever come across and he spent much of

1592
00:54:56,309 --> 00:54:53,119
his life

1593
00:54:59,510 --> 00:54:56,319
uh when he wasn't flying researching

1594
00:55:01,109 --> 00:54:59,520
uh ufos and also

1595
00:55:02,630 --> 00:55:01,119
studying every kind of science

1596
00:55:04,710 --> 00:55:02,640
imaginable

1597
00:55:06,950 --> 00:55:04,720
a brilliant fellow who was convinced

1598
00:55:08,470 --> 00:55:06,960
until his dying day that what he saw and

1599
00:55:11,750 --> 00:55:08,480
what my dad saw

1600
00:55:13,430 --> 00:55:11,760
uh was not only for real but a human

1601
00:55:15,910 --> 00:55:13,440
being could not have withstood

1602
00:55:17,109 --> 00:55:15,920
the abrupt turn of those those crafts

1603
00:55:19,510 --> 00:55:17,119
that night

1604
00:55:21,990 --> 00:55:19,520
uh you couldn't have done it it just was

1605
00:55:24,549 --> 00:55:22,000
12 000 miles an hour to flip on edge and

1606
00:55:25,430 --> 00:55:24,559
dart off in a different direction yeah

1607
00:55:27,670 --> 00:55:25,440
so

1608
00:55:29,349 --> 00:55:27,680
and neither of these guys until that day

1609
00:55:31,510 --> 00:55:29,359
had it probably any interest at all

1610
00:55:33,030 --> 00:55:31,520
in this but again captain nash spent the

1611
00:55:34,390 --> 00:55:33,040
rest of his life studying everything

1612
00:55:37,349 --> 00:55:34,400
from electromagnetic

1613
00:55:38,630 --> 00:55:37,359
interference from uh to to just the

1614
00:55:41,990 --> 00:55:38,640
physics in general and

1615
00:55:44,549 --> 00:55:42,000
uh was a brilliant brilliant fellow wow

1616
00:55:45,750 --> 00:55:44,559
that's amazing so that really did uh

1617
00:55:48,950 --> 00:55:45,760
open his eyes and change

1618
00:55:49,430 --> 00:55:48,960
change his life basically yeah yeah some

1619
00:55:51,190 --> 00:55:49,440
people

1620
00:55:53,510 --> 00:55:51,200
are um you know they just kind of move

1621
00:55:55,750 --> 00:55:53,520
on and say oh that was interesting

1622
00:55:58,150 --> 00:55:55,760
and then some people like myself that's

1623
00:56:00,630 --> 00:55:58,160
why i do the show i had a ufo sighting

1624
00:56:02,309 --> 00:56:00,640
and uh and it made a difference it made

1625
00:56:05,349 --> 00:56:02,319
me really look at it

1626
00:56:08,069 --> 00:56:05,359
and you know it's it's amazing

1627
00:56:09,430 --> 00:56:08,079
because when i was i guess you'd call it

1628
00:56:12,230 --> 00:56:09,440
on the outside

1629
00:56:13,670 --> 00:56:12,240
um you know you might have this attitude

1630
00:56:16,230 --> 00:56:13,680
about people that

1631
00:56:17,990 --> 00:56:16,240
look into the subject or at least you

1632
00:56:19,589 --> 00:56:18,000
know i may have at one time

1633
00:56:21,750 --> 00:56:19,599
i think it was a little nutty or

1634
00:56:24,150 --> 00:56:21,760
something like that until you actually

1635
00:56:25,750 --> 00:56:24,160
experience something and then it and

1636
00:56:27,589 --> 00:56:25,760
then you think there's something to it

1637
00:56:29,589 --> 00:56:27,599
and then when you look into it you find

1638
00:56:30,870 --> 00:56:29,599
all the people that are really brilliant

1639
00:56:33,589 --> 00:56:30,880
that are actually

1640
00:56:35,430 --> 00:56:33,599
looking into this subject so it's not

1641
00:56:35,910 --> 00:56:35,440
it's not just for the tinfoil hatters

1642
00:56:39,430 --> 00:56:35,920
and the

1643
00:56:40,470 --> 00:56:39,440
kooks you mentioned something there that

1644
00:56:42,069 --> 00:56:40,480
uh

1645
00:56:43,990 --> 00:56:42,079
that brought back some memories to me

1646
00:56:45,990 --> 00:56:44,000
then in fact you asked about

1647
00:56:48,309 --> 00:56:46,000
they had did we talk about that in the

1648
00:56:49,990 --> 00:56:48,319
family and did my mother talk about it

1649
00:56:52,150 --> 00:56:50,000
you know i never talked about it as a

1650
00:56:54,390 --> 00:56:52,160
kid i can remember one time

1651
00:56:57,430 --> 00:56:54,400
uh maybe being a fifth or sixth grader

1652
00:56:59,990 --> 00:56:57,440
mentioning that my dad saw some ufos

1653
00:57:00,950 --> 00:57:00,000
and you talk about a kid being ridiculed

1654
00:57:03,109 --> 00:57:00,960
and laughed at

1655
00:57:05,030 --> 00:57:03,119
picked on i never brought it up again

1656
00:57:07,510 --> 00:57:05,040
and i don't to this day

1657
00:57:09,030 --> 00:57:07,520
uh any of the people or i grew up with

1658
00:57:11,670 --> 00:57:09,040
had any knowledge

1659
00:57:12,309 --> 00:57:11,680
that my dad was involved in that siding

1660
00:57:15,589 --> 00:57:12,319
yeah

1661
00:57:19,190 --> 00:57:15,599
that's

1662
00:57:21,750 --> 00:57:19,200
kind of formulated

1663
00:57:23,030 --> 00:57:21,760
um over the years uh for a way to kind

1664
00:57:25,270 --> 00:57:23,040
of push this subject

1665
00:57:26,549 --> 00:57:25,280
in that direction you know the robertson

1666
00:57:29,750 --> 00:57:26,559
panel as uh

1667
00:57:30,230 --> 00:57:29,760
uh 1953 i think it was was uh one of

1668
00:57:36,390 --> 00:57:30,240
those

1669
00:57:37,109 --> 00:57:36,400
helped uh decide to you know make the

1670
00:57:42,470 --> 00:57:37,119
ridicule

1671
00:57:43,670 --> 00:57:42,480
it was essentially the government policy

1672
00:57:46,230 --> 00:57:43,680
at the time and

1673
00:57:48,710 --> 00:57:46,240
uh again in the week those flip up to

1674
00:57:49,670 --> 00:57:48,720
1957 the week of my dad's crash for

1675
00:57:52,150 --> 00:57:49,680
example

1676
00:57:53,349 --> 00:57:52,160
uh like onto train over lake

1677
00:57:56,470 --> 00:57:53,359
pontchartrain

1678
00:58:00,470 --> 00:57:56,480
air force folks came across the

1679
00:58:02,870 --> 00:58:00,480
ufos and the air force put out a

1680
00:58:04,390 --> 00:58:02,880
communication to every aircraft in the

1681
00:58:06,230 --> 00:58:04,400
vicinity to be on the lookout for

1682
00:58:08,549 --> 00:58:06,240
anything strange and unusual

1683
00:58:09,670 --> 00:58:08,559
and then when the air force was asked

1684
00:58:13,270 --> 00:58:09,680
about this they

1685
00:58:14,950 --> 00:58:13,280
of course denied it uh and

1686
00:58:16,710 --> 00:58:14,960
it happened and people knew it and they

1687
00:58:18,230 --> 00:58:16,720
offered the fi the pilots who flew these

1688
00:58:20,150 --> 00:58:18,240
planes they saw this

1689
00:58:21,430 --> 00:58:20,160
the radio controllers everyone knew what

1690
00:58:23,270 --> 00:58:21,440
went on with the official government

1691
00:58:24,470 --> 00:58:23,280
policy was no you you're out of your

1692
00:58:27,510 --> 00:58:24,480
mind

1693
00:58:30,309 --> 00:58:27,520
right well the predecessor to

1694
00:58:31,109 --> 00:58:30,319
one of the predecessors to project blue

1695
00:58:35,510 --> 00:58:31,119
book

1696
00:58:39,109 --> 00:58:35,520
was plot project grunge started in 1951

1697
00:58:41,910 --> 00:58:39,119
so did they uh get did they look at your

1698
00:58:43,270 --> 00:58:41,920
your father citing the nationalists uh

1699
00:58:46,309 --> 00:58:43,280
you know i don't recall

1700
00:58:48,230 --> 00:58:46,319
at all oh i do not recall that martin

1701
00:58:49,430 --> 00:58:48,240
yeah the blue book looked at it and

1702
00:58:51,190 --> 00:58:49,440
there were a number of books written

1703
00:58:55,030 --> 00:58:51,200
that had this sighting uh

1704
00:58:57,910 --> 00:58:55,040
in it and uh captain nash had a

1705
00:58:58,789 --> 00:58:57,920
really an interesting exchange with uh

1706
00:59:00,390 --> 00:58:58,799
menzel

1707
00:59:02,870 --> 00:59:00,400
years later who was one of the people

1708
00:59:05,030 --> 00:59:02,880
who discounted uh the sighting and

1709
00:59:07,589 --> 00:59:05,040
tried to kiss it off as something other

1710
00:59:10,390 --> 00:59:07,599
than what some of us believe it was

1711
00:59:11,670 --> 00:59:10,400
uh he had a number of letters back and

1712
00:59:13,589 --> 00:59:11,680
forth with manziel

1713
00:59:15,190 --> 00:59:13,599
and in putting him in his place in my

1714
00:59:17,990 --> 00:59:15,200
opinion uh

1715
00:59:18,789 --> 00:59:18,000
and i think that uh those letters are

1716
00:59:20,630 --> 00:59:18,799
are available

1717
00:59:22,390 --> 00:59:20,640
now because they were in the government

1718
00:59:23,270 --> 00:59:22,400
finals and they've all been unclassified

1719
00:59:25,030 --> 00:59:23,280
now but

1720
00:59:27,030 --> 00:59:25,040
i think captain nash does a pretty good

1721
00:59:30,470 --> 00:59:27,040
job of explaining what he saw

1722
00:59:31,910 --> 00:59:30,480
and uh and and discounting uh menzel

1723
00:59:33,750 --> 00:59:31,920
and some of the other debunkers on that

1724
00:59:37,030 --> 00:59:33,760
particular sighting

1725
00:59:39,109 --> 00:59:37,040
now you mentioned uh nash uh really

1726
00:59:40,950 --> 00:59:39,119
looking into this whole topic do you

1727
00:59:42,069 --> 00:59:40,960
know if he ever spoke anywhere about

1728
00:59:46,710 --> 00:59:42,079
this

1729
00:59:48,710 --> 00:59:46,720
he did not a lot but he did and uh

1730
00:59:50,470 --> 00:59:48,720
he he again he didn't make it while he

1731
00:59:51,589 --> 00:59:50,480
was with pan am you just don't talk

1732
00:59:54,309 --> 00:59:51,599
about these things yeah

1733
00:59:56,069 --> 00:59:54,319
that happened 20 or 30 years earlier uh

1734
00:59:57,750 --> 00:59:56,079
but he did speak to some small

1735
00:59:59,910 --> 00:59:57,760
gatherings uh in the pa

1736
01:00:00,870 --> 00:59:59,920
in the 50s i think even not so long

1737
01:00:03,109 --> 01:00:00,880
afterwards

1738
01:00:04,390 --> 01:00:03,119
uh and some of the documentation that i

1739
01:00:07,750 --> 01:00:04,400
found he spoke to

1740
01:00:09,190 --> 01:00:07,760
a group in miami and among the people

1741
01:00:11,349 --> 01:00:09,200
in the audience that they were a couple

1742
01:00:13,990 --> 01:00:11,359
of air force intelligence officers

1743
01:00:14,789 --> 01:00:14,000
who cornered him after the meeting and

1744
01:00:20,710 --> 01:00:14,799
tried to

1745
01:00:23,990 --> 01:00:20,720
tune and he of course refused to do that

1746
01:00:25,990 --> 01:00:24,000
right uh we know at seven o'clock your

1747
01:00:27,349 --> 01:00:26,000
your uh your clock just chimed you

1748
01:00:27,990 --> 01:00:27,359
probably don't even hear it that's the

1749
01:00:30,309 --> 01:00:28,000
way i get with

1750
01:00:33,990 --> 01:00:30,319
my uh clocks well my wife said it was

1751
01:00:37,670 --> 01:00:36,870
yeah um so let's let's uh switch gears

1752
01:00:41,990 --> 01:00:37,680
and go back

1753
01:00:45,589 --> 01:00:42,000
um to uh back to 1957

1754
01:00:47,190 --> 01:00:45,599
now sputnik uh went up uh in october of

1755
01:00:49,990 --> 01:00:47,200
that year i believe right

1756
01:00:51,109 --> 01:00:50,000
that's correct yeah yeah second one a

1757
01:00:53,430 --> 01:00:51,119
few weeks after that

1758
01:00:54,470 --> 01:00:53,440
correct and there was a lot of uh

1759
01:00:57,190 --> 01:00:54,480
tension

1760
01:00:58,710 --> 01:00:57,200
uh during that time as well uh you know

1761
01:01:00,710 --> 01:00:58,720
like cold war tension

1762
01:01:03,030 --> 01:01:00,720
absolutely i mean we were frightened to

1763
01:01:04,630 --> 01:01:03,040
death of the soviet union and they were

1764
01:01:06,390 --> 01:01:04,640
clearly ahead of us in this race for

1765
01:01:08,150 --> 01:01:06,400
space uh

1766
01:01:09,910 --> 01:01:08,160
and people the government was certainly

1767
01:01:11,270 --> 01:01:09,920
paranoid people in high places in

1768
01:01:13,670 --> 01:01:11,280
government were paranoid and

1769
01:01:14,309 --> 01:01:13,680
and also fearful of what the russians

1770
01:01:17,430 --> 01:01:14,319
were

1771
01:01:20,230 --> 01:01:17,440
ahead of us so

1772
01:01:21,270 --> 01:01:20,240
uh yeah it was a it was a crazy time we

1773
01:01:23,190 --> 01:01:21,280
were in the middle

1774
01:01:24,549 --> 01:01:23,200
beginnings i guess the cold war the

1775
01:01:28,390 --> 01:01:24,559
serious

1776
01:01:32,390 --> 01:01:28,400
that

1777
01:01:35,030 --> 01:01:32,400
skies i guess to look for sputnik

1778
01:01:36,630 --> 01:01:35,040
in fact uh some of the searchers from my

1779
01:01:38,789 --> 01:01:36,640
dad's plane

1780
01:01:39,829 --> 01:01:38,799
spotted sputnik one night uh from a

1781
01:01:42,150 --> 01:01:39,839
coast guard uh

1782
01:01:43,990 --> 01:01:42,160
craft out in the ocean and remarked

1783
01:01:44,990 --> 01:01:44,000
about that so uh yeah everybody looked

1784
01:01:47,990 --> 01:01:45,000
to the skies in

1785
01:01:50,870 --> 01:01:48,000
1957. yeah yeah i don't know how many

1786
01:01:53,990 --> 01:01:50,880
satellites we have up there now

1787
01:01:56,870 --> 01:01:54,000
thousands um but uh that was

1788
01:01:57,270 --> 01:01:56,880
that was indeed the first the first one

1789
01:01:59,109 --> 01:01:57,280
and

1790
01:02:00,870 --> 01:01:59,119
i remember it you know when i was a

1791
01:02:03,430 --> 01:02:00,880
little kid you know years after

1792
01:02:04,789 --> 01:02:03,440
people were still talking about that

1793
01:02:07,510 --> 01:02:04,799
like it was like a

1794
01:02:09,029 --> 01:02:07,520
a big deal and i think that's uh that

1795
01:02:10,230 --> 01:02:09,039
was our whole motivation behind the

1796
01:02:12,549 --> 01:02:10,240
space race

1797
01:02:14,150 --> 01:02:12,559
yeah get to the moon get to the moon and

1798
01:02:15,430 --> 01:02:14,160
and again we were fearful that the

1799
01:02:17,430 --> 01:02:15,440
russians and they were

1800
01:02:18,630 --> 01:02:17,440
way ahead of us uh you know there were

1801
01:02:20,309 --> 01:02:18,640
so many theories

1802
01:02:21,670 --> 01:02:20,319
abandoned about at the time about what

1803
01:02:23,829 --> 01:02:21,680
people were saying

1804
01:02:25,270 --> 01:02:23,839
the government's position always was

1805
01:02:26,789 --> 01:02:25,280
they're seeing nothing they're seeing

1806
01:02:28,630 --> 01:02:26,799
whether balloons uh

1807
01:02:29,990 --> 01:02:28,640
the figments of the imagination whatever

1808
01:02:32,150 --> 01:02:30,000
it may be because we know

1809
01:02:34,069 --> 01:02:32,160
now all these years later that there

1810
01:02:35,349 --> 01:02:34,079
were more serious looks at

1811
01:02:37,430 --> 01:02:35,359
what was happening by the government

1812
01:02:38,309 --> 01:02:37,440
than than what they were proclaiming at

1813
01:02:40,510 --> 01:02:38,319
the time

1814
01:02:41,990 --> 01:02:40,520
uh you know back to this week again in

1815
01:02:44,549 --> 01:02:42,000
1957

1816
01:02:45,750 --> 01:02:44,559
particularly in the southwest uh

1817
01:02:47,589 --> 01:02:45,760
southwest usa

1818
01:02:50,069 --> 01:02:47,599
where i mentioned the the sighting in

1819
01:02:52,230 --> 01:02:50,079
amarillo there were so many sightings

1820
01:02:54,630 --> 01:02:52,240
that week and a lot of electromagnetic

1821
01:02:56,950 --> 01:02:54,640
interference and then uh later even in

1822
01:02:58,789 --> 01:02:56,960
that week over washington d.c

1823
01:03:01,270 --> 01:02:58,799
i'm looking now to story from the

1824
01:03:04,870 --> 01:03:01,280
washington post the headline that day is

1825
01:03:07,109 --> 01:03:04,880
saucer outruns jets pilots reveal

1826
01:03:08,230 --> 01:03:07,119
uh and it says who or what was the board

1827
01:03:11,190 --> 01:03:08,240
where do they come from

1828
01:03:13,270 --> 01:03:11,200
why are they here what are their

1829
01:03:15,270 --> 01:03:13,280
intentions what is their purpose

1830
01:03:16,789 --> 01:03:15,280
and and it goes on to say that harry

1831
01:03:17,750 --> 01:03:16,799
truman demanded answers from the

1832
01:03:19,270 --> 01:03:17,760
military

1833
01:03:20,950 --> 01:03:19,280
because this became known as the

1834
01:03:23,430 --> 01:03:20,960
invasion of washington

1835
01:03:24,789 --> 01:03:23,440
and it really really got people uh in

1836
01:03:26,549 --> 01:03:24,799
high places

1837
01:03:28,069 --> 01:03:26,559
off their butts in some ways uh to

1838
01:03:29,750 --> 01:03:28,079
really look at what's going on when it

1839
01:03:30,710 --> 01:03:29,760
came home to washington yeah they were

1840
01:03:33,829 --> 01:03:30,720
interested

1841
01:03:37,109 --> 01:03:33,839
yeah yeah and uh they had uh

1842
01:03:39,750 --> 01:03:37,119
uh that was 1957 but in 1952

1843
01:03:42,150 --> 01:03:39,760
that was another washington dc you know

1844
01:03:44,069 --> 01:03:42,160
major incidents in washington dc

1845
01:03:45,270 --> 01:03:44,079
thank you exciting that the nash

1846
01:03:46,710 --> 01:03:45,280
fourteen very exciting was just in

1847
01:03:48,950 --> 01:03:46,720
chesapeake which you just did you know a

1848
01:03:51,510 --> 01:03:48,960
few miles south of washington as well

1849
01:03:53,349 --> 01:03:51,520
yeah oh that's where that happened oh

1850
01:03:54,309 --> 01:03:53,359
yeah chesapeake virginia or chesapeake

1851
01:03:58,390 --> 01:03:54,319
bay so

1852
01:03:59,109 --> 01:03:58,400
absolutely yeah um so uh what the

1853
01:04:01,029 --> 01:03:59,119
incident

1854
01:04:02,309 --> 01:04:01,039
that actually the flight went down it

1855
01:04:03,829 --> 01:04:02,319
was november 8th

1856
01:04:05,510 --> 01:04:03,839
or something like that november 8th

1857
01:04:08,549 --> 01:04:05,520
1957.

1858
01:04:11,270 --> 01:04:08,559
and uh what what are some of the other

1859
01:04:11,670 --> 01:04:11,280
i know there was a lot going on what

1860
01:04:13,990 --> 01:04:11,680
else

1861
01:04:15,750 --> 01:04:14,000
was going on that week i mean we're

1862
01:04:16,710 --> 01:04:15,760
we're not saying this is what happened

1863
01:04:19,589 --> 01:04:16,720
to that plane but

1864
01:04:21,270 --> 01:04:19,599
it's it's uh it's one of the um

1865
01:04:23,990 --> 01:04:21,280
possibilities right is that

1866
01:04:25,510 --> 01:04:24,000
is that where you're here i i think it's

1867
01:04:26,710 --> 01:04:25,520
important that you you know that i

1868
01:04:28,870 --> 01:04:26,720
looked at

1869
01:04:29,910 --> 01:04:28,880
although we're here talking about ufos i

1870
01:04:32,549 --> 01:04:29,920
looked at every

1871
01:04:33,109 --> 01:04:32,559
i think every conceivable angle as to

1872
01:04:36,150 --> 01:04:33,119
why the

1873
01:04:38,069 --> 01:04:36,160
rain may have gone down and uh you know

1874
01:04:38,950 --> 01:04:38,079
again back to this cold war issue there

1875
01:04:41,029 --> 01:04:38,960
were

1876
01:04:42,069 --> 01:04:41,039
of state department officials on this

1877
01:04:44,150 --> 01:04:42,079
plane

1878
01:04:45,430 --> 01:04:44,160
there was an air force major who was

1879
01:04:48,710 --> 01:04:45,440
tied to a

1880
01:04:49,990 --> 01:04:48,720
a a super secret unit who was on his way

1881
01:04:51,670 --> 01:04:50,000
to burma with

1882
01:04:53,270 --> 01:04:51,680
a mission of some sort we don't know

1883
01:04:55,109 --> 01:04:53,280
what that is to this day and you can't

1884
01:04:56,630 --> 01:04:55,119
even find any records of this unit he

1885
01:04:58,710 --> 01:04:56,640
was assigned to

1886
01:05:00,150 --> 01:04:58,720
um so there was a concern that maybe

1887
01:05:02,150 --> 01:05:00,160
something happened the plane in the way

1888
01:05:03,029 --> 01:05:02,160
of sabotage even from from a government

1889
01:05:05,270 --> 01:05:03,039
standpoint

1890
01:05:07,190 --> 01:05:05,280
but back to my my earlier point i looked

1891
01:05:07,670 --> 01:05:07,200
at everything i could possibly think of

1892
01:05:10,950 --> 01:05:07,680
and

1893
01:05:13,510 --> 01:05:10,960
three p's in mind it was

1894
01:05:15,750 --> 01:05:13,520
was it was it uh possible you know was

1895
01:05:17,589 --> 01:05:15,760
it probable was it plausible

1896
01:05:19,349 --> 01:05:17,599
uh and if they couldn't i couldn't

1897
01:05:21,029 --> 01:05:19,359
answer those three i

1898
01:05:22,789 --> 01:05:21,039
would discount and move on to something

1899
01:05:27,190 --> 01:05:22,799
else so

1900
01:05:29,430 --> 01:05:27,200
uh early on um again i'm 15 16 years old

1901
01:05:31,349 --> 01:05:29,440
uh i'm beginning my search for for

1902
01:05:32,309 --> 01:05:31,359
answers to how this plane went down and

1903
01:05:34,789 --> 01:05:32,319
i come across

1904
01:05:37,029 --> 01:05:34,799
a headline about you know the meteors

1905
01:05:39,670 --> 01:05:37,039
immediately a meteor hit the ufo

1906
01:05:40,950 --> 01:05:39,680
i mean excuse me hit the plane right

1907
01:05:42,549 --> 01:05:40,960
that really

1908
01:05:44,870 --> 01:05:42,559
stunned me i'd never heard that angle

1909
01:05:47,829 --> 01:05:44,880
before and a few years later

1910
01:05:49,430 --> 01:05:47,839
uh i found out uh reading old newspaper

1911
01:05:50,950 --> 01:05:49,440
articles this was before the internet

1912
01:05:51,670 --> 01:05:50,960
long before the internet remembered

1913
01:05:54,309 --> 01:05:51,680
research was

1914
01:05:56,150 --> 01:05:54,319
incredibly difficult back then i found a

1915
01:05:58,630 --> 01:05:56,160
newspaper article that pointed to

1916
01:06:00,950 --> 01:05:58,640
a passenger on the plane who was had

1917
01:06:03,829 --> 01:06:00,960
been an underwater demolition expert

1918
01:06:04,789 --> 01:06:03,839
in the navy a submariner who owned

1919
01:06:06,870 --> 01:06:04,799
property in

1920
01:06:08,870 --> 01:06:06,880
northern california who was really

1921
01:06:10,710 --> 01:06:08,880
financially against the wall

1922
01:06:13,029 --> 01:06:10,720
and he boarded that plane with a one-way

1923
01:06:13,829 --> 01:06:13,039
ticket to honolulu for purposes no one

1924
01:06:17,430 --> 01:06:13,839
knew

1925
01:06:20,069 --> 01:06:17,440
what those were uh he had a hot head

1926
01:06:20,549 --> 01:06:20,079
is this mr payne mr payne he was one of

1927
01:06:22,230 --> 01:06:20,559
my

1928
01:06:24,390 --> 01:06:22,240
fees i have three p's they're called

1929
01:06:27,990 --> 01:06:24,400
propeller uh the plane

1930
01:06:30,950 --> 01:06:28,000
of pain and the purser mr payne

1931
01:06:32,150 --> 01:06:30,960
ran this lodge in northern california

1932
01:06:34,549 --> 01:06:32,160
and uh he

1933
01:06:36,630 --> 01:06:34,559
uh he looked mighty suspicious no reason

1934
01:06:38,549 --> 01:06:36,640
to go to honolulu one-way one-way ticket

1935
01:06:39,910 --> 01:06:38,559
and he bought the equivalent of more

1936
01:06:41,430 --> 01:06:39,920
than a million dollars worth of life

1937
01:06:42,470 --> 01:06:41,440
insurance in the week or two before that

1938
01:06:44,390 --> 01:06:42,480
plane took off

1939
01:06:46,390 --> 01:06:44,400
yeah one of the insurance companies

1940
01:06:47,670 --> 01:06:46,400
refused to pay off on his policy and

1941
01:06:48,870 --> 01:06:47,680
then when that happened then made the

1942
01:06:51,750 --> 01:06:48,880
headlines

1943
01:06:53,270 --> 01:06:51,760
so for 10 years of my life after that

1944
01:06:56,150 --> 01:06:53,280
point the only suspect

1945
01:06:57,510 --> 01:06:56,160
was this guy william harrison payne the

1946
01:07:00,470 --> 01:06:57,520
the submariner

1947
01:07:00,950 --> 01:07:00,480
and i spent god knows how many years and

1948
01:07:02,870 --> 01:07:00,960
how many

1949
01:07:04,549 --> 01:07:02,880
hundreds of hours trying to develop

1950
01:07:05,270 --> 01:07:04,559
information about this guy and he was a

1951
01:07:09,270 --> 01:07:05,280
mystery

1952
01:07:11,510 --> 01:07:09,280
even today

1953
01:07:13,270 --> 01:07:11,520
uh while his wife remarried not long

1954
01:07:13,990 --> 01:07:13,280
maybe six months after the plane went

1955
01:07:15,349 --> 01:07:14,000
down

1956
01:07:18,150 --> 01:07:15,359
and while she's on her honeymoon in

1957
01:07:18,630 --> 01:07:18,160
honolulu the the lodge that she and her

1958
01:07:21,109 --> 01:07:18,640
uh her

1959
01:07:22,870 --> 01:07:21,119
deceased husband owned in in northern

1960
01:07:23,589 --> 01:07:22,880
california mysteriously burned to the

1961
01:07:25,270 --> 01:07:23,599
ground

1962
01:07:26,950 --> 01:07:25,280
and she had another insurance claim now

1963
01:07:28,789 --> 01:07:26,960
how often does that happen two insurance

1964
01:07:30,549 --> 01:07:28,799
claims in six months like that so

1965
01:07:32,230 --> 01:07:30,559
wow a lot of mysteries and a lot of

1966
01:07:35,190 --> 01:07:32,240
strange things about this guy

1967
01:07:37,510 --> 01:07:35,200
and and i pursued him at length he was

1968
01:07:40,630 --> 01:07:37,520
my number one suspect forever

1969
01:07:41,029 --> 01:07:40,640
and i don't need to go on and on here

1970
01:07:43,670 --> 01:07:41,039
but

1971
01:07:44,630 --> 01:07:43,680
it was years later maybe maybe 20 years

1972
01:07:47,270 --> 01:07:44,640
later when i

1973
01:07:48,710 --> 01:07:47,280
uh had hounded and hounded the federal

1974
01:07:50,470 --> 01:07:48,720
government for more information and

1975
01:07:51,670 --> 01:07:50,480
every time i asked for documents as you

1976
01:07:52,870 --> 01:07:51,680
know how this works

1977
01:07:54,549 --> 01:07:52,880
they say well you don't have any we

1978
01:07:56,150 --> 01:07:54,559
don't have anything else and i'd say

1979
01:07:58,069 --> 01:07:56,160
baloney i know you do

1980
01:07:59,270 --> 01:07:58,079
and i'd find a tip on and push them in

1981
01:08:01,670 --> 01:07:59,280
another direction and

1982
01:08:02,309 --> 01:08:01,680
continue to push and push and push and

1983
01:08:05,029 --> 01:08:02,319
finally i

1984
01:08:05,910 --> 01:08:05,039
i discovered that the purser on the

1985
01:08:07,430 --> 01:08:05,920
plane

1986
01:08:09,750 --> 01:08:07,440
which was uh you know like a senior

1987
01:08:12,069 --> 01:08:09,760
flight attendant today yeah the prisoner

1988
01:08:13,990 --> 01:08:12,079
on the plane was the number one suspect

1989
01:08:15,829 --> 01:08:14,000
of pan am and even the federal

1990
01:08:16,470 --> 01:08:15,839
authorities and his name had never

1991
01:08:19,269 --> 01:08:16,480
surfaced

1992
01:08:19,590 --> 01:08:19,279
in public anywhere now why was he did he

1993
01:08:22,789 --> 01:08:19,600
have

1994
01:08:24,950 --> 01:08:22,799
issues well i found out later that he

1995
01:08:26,950 --> 01:08:24,960
had many issues

1996
01:08:28,309 --> 01:08:26,960
at the at the time the only thing they

1997
01:08:30,309 --> 01:08:28,319
learned uh

1998
01:08:31,829 --> 01:08:30,319
was that his wife had died maybe six

1999
01:08:32,789 --> 01:08:31,839
months earlier of cancer he was pretty

2000
01:08:34,789 --> 01:08:32,799
disru

2001
01:08:37,110 --> 01:08:34,799
over the death of his wife and the most

2002
01:08:38,870 --> 01:08:37,120
interesting thing which they knew

2003
01:08:40,309 --> 01:08:38,880
uh was that he changed his will the

2004
01:08:43,030 --> 01:08:40,319
morning of the flight

2005
01:08:43,669 --> 01:08:43,040
to uh uh to cut out his step-daughter if

2006
01:08:45,590 --> 01:08:43,679
she didn't

2007
01:08:46,709 --> 01:08:45,600
adhere to certain his demands like being

2008
01:08:48,630 --> 01:08:46,719
married

2009
01:08:50,390 --> 01:08:48,640
excuse me catholic church and not

2010
01:08:52,390 --> 01:08:50,400
getting married till she was 21

2011
01:08:53,510 --> 01:08:52,400
he supposedly was having some trouble

2012
01:08:56,709 --> 01:08:53,520
controlling her

2013
01:09:00,149 --> 01:08:56,719
she was only 16 years old uh when that

2014
01:09:00,550 --> 01:09:00,159
went down and the people investigated

2015
01:09:07,269 --> 01:09:00,560
him

2016
01:09:08,870 --> 01:09:07,279
he was number one on the list the

2017
01:09:09,910 --> 01:09:08,880
interesting thing to me is that they

2018
01:09:12,470 --> 01:09:09,920
never could convince

2019
01:09:13,510 --> 01:09:12,480
j edgar hoover to get involved in this

2020
01:09:15,749 --> 01:09:13,520
investigation

2021
01:09:17,030 --> 01:09:15,759
they begged him repeatedly to get

2022
01:09:17,990 --> 01:09:17,040
involved in this because they were

2023
01:09:19,669 --> 01:09:18,000
convinced that

2024
01:09:21,030 --> 01:09:19,679
this fellow must have done something to

2025
01:09:23,749 --> 01:09:21,040
the plane

2026
01:09:25,349 --> 01:09:23,759
uh and he refused uh all the time just

2027
01:09:26,870 --> 01:09:25,359
consistently refused whether

2028
01:09:28,390 --> 01:09:26,880
he did that because he was always

2029
01:09:30,390 --> 01:09:28,400
interested in saving face and you know

2030
01:09:31,669 --> 01:09:30,400
the fbi always gets its man

2031
01:09:33,349 --> 01:09:31,679
and he didn't think he could ever get

2032
01:09:34,470 --> 01:09:33,359
his man because the evidence was at the

2033
01:09:36,070 --> 01:09:34,480
bottom of the ocean

2034
01:09:37,590 --> 01:09:36,080
or if something else was involved and

2035
01:09:38,789 --> 01:09:37,600
why he didn't want to get involved the

2036
01:09:41,349 --> 01:09:38,799
case but whatever

2037
01:09:43,110 --> 01:09:41,359
the fbi never entered the case despite

2038
01:09:44,789 --> 01:09:43,120
the begging and pleading from pan am and

2039
01:09:48,149 --> 01:09:44,799
the civil aeronautics board

2040
01:09:48,550 --> 01:09:48,159
so he was number two payne was number

2041
01:09:50,870 --> 01:09:48,560
one

2042
01:09:52,149 --> 01:09:50,880
uh the purser is number two uh number

2043
01:09:53,189 --> 01:09:52,159
three and the most obvious is the

2044
01:09:54,630 --> 01:09:53,199
propellers and the

2045
01:09:56,870 --> 01:09:54,640
maintenance and the mechanicals of the

2046
01:09:58,630 --> 01:09:56,880
plane the plane was very troublesome

2047
01:10:00,070 --> 01:09:58,640
uh it was the largest fastest most

2048
01:10:02,630 --> 01:10:00,080
luxurious plane of its time

2049
01:10:03,669 --> 01:10:02,640
as uh the video earlier showed you uh

2050
01:10:06,229 --> 01:10:03,679
but it also was

2051
01:10:08,070 --> 01:10:06,239
prone to a lot of trouble one of the

2052
01:10:11,030 --> 01:10:08,080
concerns was that the propellers

2053
01:10:13,350 --> 01:10:11,040
may have made better throwing prop well

2054
01:10:15,669 --> 01:10:13,360
these planes had been prone to problem

2055
01:10:17,669 --> 01:10:15,679
problems with the props uh but that

2056
01:10:19,270 --> 01:10:17,679
particular prop was a hollow blade prop

2057
01:10:21,910 --> 01:10:19,280
and had been replaced

2058
01:10:22,550 --> 01:10:21,920
several years earlier so that wasn't the

2059
01:10:27,990 --> 01:10:22,560
issue

2060
01:10:30,149 --> 01:10:28,000
the time because they were

2061
01:10:31,990 --> 01:10:30,159
really having trouble in that division

2062
01:10:34,149 --> 01:10:32,000
uh you know the jet age was just around

2063
01:10:35,189 --> 01:10:34,159
the corner they're bringing in 707 jets

2064
01:10:37,189 --> 01:10:35,199
the next year

2065
01:10:38,790 --> 01:10:37,199
these four engine props were expensive

2066
01:10:40,310 --> 01:10:38,800
to operate and they were losing money

2067
01:10:42,310 --> 01:10:40,320
hand over fist

2068
01:10:44,229 --> 01:10:42,320
so they did cut back maintenance and

2069
01:10:45,830 --> 01:10:44,239
that was a question too did did

2070
01:10:47,350 --> 01:10:45,840
faulty maintenance cause this thing to

2071
01:10:49,110 --> 01:10:47,360
go down uh

2072
01:10:51,030 --> 01:10:49,120
that was something else i looked at and

2073
01:10:52,550 --> 01:10:51,040
then again i looked at this ufo angle

2074
01:10:55,110 --> 01:10:52,560
and that's why you and i are talking

2075
01:10:57,189 --> 01:10:55,120
today i i suppose because

2076
01:10:59,590 --> 01:10:57,199
this issue of electronic uh

2077
01:11:02,149 --> 01:10:59,600
electromagnetic interference with uh

2078
01:11:04,630 --> 01:11:02,159
with airplanes and vehicles and all uh

2079
01:11:07,990 --> 01:11:04,640
intrigued me and it still intrigues me

2080
01:11:11,270 --> 01:11:08,000
right um it happens

2081
01:11:12,149 --> 01:11:11,280
and it happens today yeah i mean there's

2082
01:11:19,750 --> 01:11:12,159
that uh

2083
01:11:21,270 --> 01:11:19,760
uh flight in iran uh i believe it is

2084
01:11:22,790 --> 01:11:21,280
um i don't know if you heard of that but

2085
01:11:23,990 --> 01:11:22,800
there was uh some type of

2086
01:11:26,790 --> 01:11:24,000
electromagnetic

2087
01:11:28,149 --> 01:11:26,800
interference and when you're in a plane

2088
01:11:29,350 --> 01:11:28,159
you know they haven't left one of them

2089
01:11:32,070 --> 01:11:29,360
up in the sky yet

2090
01:11:33,350 --> 01:11:32,080
they all they all gravity takes them all

2091
01:11:36,709 --> 01:11:33,360
one way or the other

2092
01:11:38,229 --> 01:11:36,719
and uh yeah so you know thing to me and

2093
01:11:40,070 --> 01:11:38,239
looking at this is think about this when

2094
01:11:40,790 --> 01:11:40,080
you get on a plane what do they tell you

2095
01:11:43,990 --> 01:11:40,800
to do

2096
01:11:45,830 --> 01:11:44,000
turn off your electronic devices why

2097
01:11:47,669 --> 01:11:45,840
they're concerned about electromagnetic

2098
01:11:48,630 --> 01:11:47,679
interference with the cockpit in some

2099
01:11:51,990 --> 01:11:48,640
way

2100
01:11:53,430 --> 01:11:52,000
so back to 1957 or so we didn't do

2101
01:11:55,270 --> 01:11:53,440
anything like that then there was a

2102
01:11:57,350 --> 01:11:55,280
concern about that even then

2103
01:11:59,430 --> 01:11:57,360
and and this is also interesting martin

2104
01:12:01,110 --> 01:11:59,440
and in 1964

2105
01:12:02,630 --> 01:12:01,120
uh you're probably familiar with knight

2106
01:12:04,790 --> 01:12:02,640
cap it was called the national

2107
01:12:06,310 --> 01:12:04,800
uh investigations committee on aeronaut

2108
01:12:09,030 --> 01:12:06,320
phenomenon

2109
01:12:09,669 --> 01:12:09,040
i did a study of uh let's see it was a

2110
01:12:11,750 --> 01:12:09,679
hundred

2111
01:12:15,030 --> 01:12:11,760
electromagnetic interference cases

2112
01:12:16,709 --> 01:12:15,040
involving aircraft from 1950 to 1953 a

2113
01:12:18,630 --> 01:12:16,719
hundred different cases

2114
01:12:21,350 --> 01:12:18,640
and they came up with some theories as

2115
01:12:23,590 --> 01:12:21,360
to what may be going on one of them was

2116
01:12:24,950 --> 01:12:23,600
russian and american nuclear testing

2117
01:12:26,870 --> 01:12:24,960
that in some way was

2118
01:12:28,790 --> 01:12:26,880
causing some interference with the

2119
01:12:30,470 --> 01:12:28,800
aircraft but that would have to be

2120
01:12:32,310 --> 01:12:30,480
happening at the time

2121
01:12:33,750 --> 01:12:32,320
yeah absolutely and that's something i

2122
01:12:35,590 --> 01:12:33,760
looked at there was nothing happening in

2123
01:12:36,790 --> 01:12:35,600
that particular week that day

2124
01:12:38,790 --> 01:12:36,800
you know there was testing in the

2125
01:12:39,270 --> 01:12:38,800
pacific but not in that area not at that

2126
01:12:41,350 --> 01:12:39,280
time

2127
01:12:43,590 --> 01:12:41,360
whatever but they're just talking about

2128
01:12:45,110 --> 01:12:43,600
in general from 1950 to 53

2129
01:12:46,870 --> 01:12:45,120
we're looking at the possibility of what

2130
01:12:48,630 --> 01:12:46,880
could be causing this electromagnetic

2131
01:12:50,149 --> 01:12:48,640
interference with planes

2132
01:12:53,030 --> 01:12:50,159
and they thought well nuclear-powered

2133
01:12:53,910 --> 01:12:53,040
ufos uh and that's purely speculative

2134
01:12:55,910 --> 01:12:53,920
like everything

2135
01:12:57,110 --> 01:12:55,920
they might be making the planes in the

2136
01:13:00,790 --> 01:12:57,120
in these the air

2137
01:13:03,669 --> 01:13:00,800
excuse me the air uh vehicles uh

2138
01:13:04,630 --> 01:13:03,679
powerless uh and the other thing was the

2139
01:13:07,830 --> 01:13:04,640
possibility

2140
01:13:10,790 --> 01:13:07,840
that uh something

2141
01:13:12,709 --> 01:13:10,800
was deliberately uh causing

2142
01:13:15,830 --> 01:13:12,719
electromagnetic interference

2143
01:13:17,830 --> 01:13:15,840
uh possibly from a ufo

2144
01:13:19,750 --> 01:13:17,840
uh at any rate that the conclusion i

2145
01:13:21,110 --> 01:13:19,760
thought was very interesting they said

2146
01:13:22,870 --> 01:13:21,120
because this is a warning that we can

2147
01:13:26,149 --> 01:13:22,880
take into consideration today

2148
01:13:29,110 --> 01:13:26,159
they say in conclusion it's false logic

2149
01:13:31,430 --> 01:13:29,120
for a scientist to deny observations

2150
01:13:33,189 --> 01:13:31,440
such as electromagnetic interference

2151
01:13:34,950 --> 01:13:33,199
on the grounds that we cannot fully

2152
01:13:36,790 --> 01:13:34,960
explain them

2153
01:13:39,350 --> 01:13:36,800
taken in association with other

2154
01:13:40,950 --> 01:13:39,360
accumulated evidence about ufos

2155
01:13:43,750 --> 01:13:40,960
the fact that we have difficulty

2156
01:13:45,189 --> 01:13:43,760
explaining electromagnetic effects

2157
01:13:46,790 --> 01:13:45,199
can also mean that we're dealing with

2158
01:13:49,350 --> 01:13:46,800
something and some

2159
01:13:50,390 --> 01:13:49,360
technology far superior to anything that

2160
01:13:52,390 --> 01:13:50,400
we know

2161
01:13:54,950 --> 01:13:52,400
and and that's that was the captain

2162
01:13:57,590 --> 01:13:54,960
nash's observation about the 52 sighting

2163
01:13:59,189 --> 01:13:57,600
who do we think we are um you know we

2164
01:14:01,430 --> 01:13:59,199
thought the world was flat not so long

2165
01:14:04,550 --> 01:14:01,440
ago

2166
01:14:06,550 --> 01:14:04,560
yeah you know who knows well

2167
01:14:08,070 --> 01:14:06,560
like uh like in the clip i played where

2168
01:14:10,550 --> 01:14:08,080
they were talking about

2169
01:14:12,470 --> 01:14:10,560
um you know in the 18th century or 17th

2170
01:14:13,750 --> 01:14:12,480
century they didn't believe that rocks

2171
01:14:17,030 --> 01:14:13,760
fell from the sky

2172
01:14:20,229 --> 01:14:17,040
you know meteors um yeah so yeah

2173
01:14:22,950 --> 01:14:20,239
uh a lot of has changed uh nycap

2174
01:14:23,990 --> 01:14:22,960
uh richard dr richard haynes was uh

2175
01:14:27,189 --> 01:14:24,000
involved in that

2176
01:14:27,669 --> 01:14:27,199
uh for many years and uh i i got to meet

2177
01:14:29,830 --> 01:14:27,679
him and

2178
01:14:31,350 --> 01:14:29,840
and he would not come on this show

2179
01:14:32,950 --> 01:14:31,360
because he didn't

2180
01:14:35,830 --> 01:14:32,960
he didn't want to come on a show that

2181
01:14:37,990 --> 01:14:35,840
had ufo in the title

2182
01:14:38,950 --> 01:14:38,000
because of the connotation of uh that

2183
01:14:42,470 --> 01:14:38,960
acronym

2184
01:14:45,590 --> 01:14:42,480
you know he said if it was a podcast uap

2185
01:14:47,430 --> 01:14:45,600
he'd be on the show you know hey another

2186
01:14:49,990 --> 01:14:47,440
interesting thing this is just

2187
01:14:51,990 --> 01:14:50,000
has nothing to do specifically with the

2188
01:14:52,630 --> 01:14:52,000
gent what we're talking about except for

2189
01:14:55,510 --> 01:14:52,640
the fact

2190
01:14:57,110 --> 01:14:55,520
this is very interesting one of the

2191
01:14:59,270 --> 01:14:57,120
things i looked at when i chased down

2192
01:15:00,310 --> 01:14:59,280
this ufo angle and electromagnetic

2193
01:15:02,229 --> 01:15:00,320
interference was

2194
01:15:03,350 --> 01:15:02,239
any events that happened that week i

2195
01:15:06,390 --> 01:15:03,360
looked at every

2196
01:15:08,229 --> 01:15:06,400
uh ufo event during that particular week

2197
01:15:09,430 --> 01:15:08,239
and i came across a guy and i have a

2198
01:15:11,990 --> 01:15:09,440
chapter in this book

2199
01:15:13,270 --> 01:15:12,000
specifically about this and this guy and

2200
01:15:16,310 --> 01:15:13,280
i call him they became

2201
01:15:19,270 --> 01:15:16,320
known as mr x the man from saturn and

2202
01:15:21,030 --> 01:15:19,280
this was a grain uh buyer dealer and he

2203
01:15:24,950 --> 01:15:21,040
in cuny nebraska

2204
01:15:26,229 --> 01:15:24,960
he came across a ufo and uh he reported

2205
01:15:27,750 --> 01:15:26,239
this ufo

2206
01:15:30,229 --> 01:15:27,760
and of course they locked him up and

2207
01:15:33,189 --> 01:15:30,239
said he was crazy and and they

2208
01:15:34,390 --> 01:15:33,199
clipped him for several days and uh

2209
01:15:35,669 --> 01:15:34,400
ultimately the

2210
01:15:37,990 --> 01:15:35,679
mental authority said there's nothing

2211
01:15:41,910 --> 01:15:38,000
wrong with this man he's perfectly

2212
01:15:43,189 --> 01:15:41,920
sane uh he also then not but a few weeks

2213
01:15:46,390 --> 01:15:43,199
later claimed

2214
01:15:48,550 --> 01:15:46,400
uh that this ufo he encountered again

2215
01:15:49,510 --> 01:15:48,560
and this time the the man from saturn

2216
01:15:52,550 --> 01:15:49,520
introduced himself

2217
01:15:52,870 --> 01:15:52,560
and took him aboard the aircraft and i

2218
01:15:54,229 --> 01:15:52,880
had

2219
01:15:56,310 --> 01:15:54,239
questions for him and one of the

2220
01:15:58,390 --> 01:15:56,320
questions was what was the board that

2221
01:16:00,070 --> 01:15:58,400
pan am strata cruiser that crashed a few

2222
01:16:02,550 --> 01:16:00,080
weeks ago

2223
01:16:03,189 --> 01:16:02,560
and one of the things interesting that

2224
01:16:05,030 --> 01:16:03,199
above

2225
01:16:06,790 --> 01:16:05,040
that was on the uh cargo was some

2226
01:16:09,830 --> 01:16:06,800
radioactive material

2227
01:16:12,310 --> 01:16:09,840
and that had been made public actually

2228
01:16:13,590 --> 01:16:12,320
and this fellow reinhold schmidt i

2229
01:16:14,630 --> 01:16:13,600
thought maybe that's what they were

2230
01:16:17,669 --> 01:16:14,640
interested in

2231
01:16:20,310 --> 01:16:17,679
uh and long story short reinhold schmidt

2232
01:16:20,950 --> 01:16:20,320
was a bs artist and i ended up in prison

2233
01:16:23,510 --> 01:16:20,960
later

2234
01:16:24,790 --> 01:16:23,520
but he made quite a hit for the several

2235
01:16:27,350 --> 01:16:24,800
years afterwards about

2236
01:16:28,470 --> 01:16:27,360
being taken up for rides in the ufos and

2237
01:16:30,709 --> 01:16:28,480
and such

2238
01:16:31,990 --> 01:16:30,719
yeah wow how about that so i'm posting

2239
01:16:34,870 --> 01:16:32,000
this question up here

2240
01:16:36,870 --> 01:16:34,880
from mary grace kirby unless the wings

2241
01:16:37,830 --> 01:16:36,880
or tail were damaged couldn't the plane

2242
01:16:40,630 --> 01:16:37,840
have been able

2243
01:16:41,110 --> 01:16:40,640
to be glided down if the power went out

2244
01:16:44,709 --> 01:16:41,120
now i

2245
01:16:48,149 --> 01:16:44,719
i do know that um there was an instance

2246
01:16:48,790 --> 01:16:48,159
when a uh a commercial airliner was

2247
01:16:52,070 --> 01:16:48,800
flying

2248
01:16:53,350 --> 01:16:52,080
to england i believe and they had a fuel

2249
01:16:56,709 --> 01:16:53,360
issue fueled liquid

2250
01:16:58,709 --> 01:16:56,719
leakage and they had glided for miles

2251
01:16:59,830 --> 01:16:58,719
and landed in the azores it was quite an

2252
01:17:02,390 --> 01:16:59,840
amazing story

2253
01:17:03,990 --> 01:17:02,400
but um but i don't know when it comes to

2254
01:17:07,430 --> 01:17:04,000
these prop lanes uh this

2255
01:17:07,830 --> 01:17:07,440
is a 70 ton aircraft and i just don't

2256
01:17:10,950 --> 01:17:07,840
know

2257
01:17:12,070 --> 01:17:10,960
if uh if it could collide like the the

2258
01:17:13,910 --> 01:17:12,080
jets do today

2259
01:17:15,350 --> 01:17:13,920
i i don't think so the the error in that

2260
01:17:17,430 --> 01:17:15,360
dynamics and the fact that you've got

2261
01:17:19,910 --> 01:17:17,440
those four propellers turning there and

2262
01:17:21,430 --> 01:17:19,920
that would make it just about impossible

2263
01:17:23,750 --> 01:17:21,440
i would think that uh

2264
01:17:25,430 --> 01:17:23,760
she asked the question about the damage

2265
01:17:27,669 --> 01:17:25,440
to the wings and such

2266
01:17:28,550 --> 01:17:27,679
if they hadn't had that damage or could

2267
01:17:30,470 --> 01:17:28,560
it have glided

2268
01:17:32,149 --> 01:17:30,480
i don't know i don't think so because of

2269
01:17:32,630 --> 01:17:32,159
the weight of the plane the aerodynamics

2270
01:17:35,030 --> 01:17:32,640
of it

2271
01:17:36,310 --> 01:17:35,040
again the prop engines the propellers

2272
01:17:38,149 --> 01:17:36,320
all of those things i don't think it was

2273
01:17:40,149 --> 01:17:38,159
just plopped out of the sky

2274
01:17:41,590 --> 01:17:40,159
uh i do think that whatever happened to

2275
01:17:42,709 --> 01:17:41,600
the plane i don't know what happened to

2276
01:17:44,550 --> 01:17:42,719
the plane

2277
01:17:46,630 --> 01:17:44,560
but whatever happened to it it was under

2278
01:17:48,390 --> 01:17:46,640
some semblance of control

2279
01:17:50,310 --> 01:17:48,400
uh at least to the point that they tried

2280
01:17:51,990 --> 01:17:50,320
to ditch strangely some of the

2281
01:17:53,430 --> 01:17:52,000
passengers on the plane uh

2282
01:17:54,870 --> 01:17:53,440
were prepared for ditching they had

2283
01:17:56,790 --> 01:17:54,880
their shoes off and they had life

2284
01:17:58,950 --> 01:17:56,800
jackets on others did not

2285
01:18:00,709 --> 01:17:58,960
yeah wow some people on the plane had

2286
01:18:02,950 --> 01:18:00,719
carbon monoxide

2287
01:18:05,110 --> 01:18:02,960
poisoning or high levels of carbon

2288
01:18:07,270 --> 01:18:05,120
monoxide poisoning and others did not

2289
01:18:08,310 --> 01:18:07,280
depending upon where they were in the

2290
01:18:10,229 --> 01:18:08,320
plane

2291
01:18:12,950 --> 01:18:10,239
so what do you before we move on from

2292
01:18:14,390 --> 01:18:12,960
that how do you suppose that uh what are

2293
01:18:15,510 --> 01:18:14,400
the theories on how that could have

2294
01:18:18,149 --> 01:18:15,520
happened

2295
01:18:19,750 --> 01:18:18,159
well there could have been uh a problem

2296
01:18:21,189 --> 01:18:19,760
in the front of the plane uh let's say

2297
01:18:21,910 --> 01:18:21,199
the engines were you know engines in

2298
01:18:24,870 --> 01:18:21,920
front of the plane

2299
01:18:25,510 --> 01:18:24,880
let's say a propeller sliced into the to

2300
01:18:32,470 --> 01:18:25,520
the

2301
01:18:33,990 --> 01:18:32,480
subject to subjected to uh fumes and gas

2302
01:18:35,189 --> 01:18:34,000
from that and that could have happened

2303
01:18:36,950 --> 01:18:35,199
something could have happened the back

2304
01:18:38,149 --> 01:18:36,960
of the plane and and could have caused

2305
01:18:40,390 --> 01:18:38,159
the issue there

2306
01:18:41,189 --> 01:18:40,400
uh when the planes are going down

2307
01:18:42,950 --> 01:18:41,199
everybody is

2308
01:18:44,310 --> 01:18:42,960
instructed to go to the front of the

2309
01:18:46,310 --> 01:18:44,320
plane

2310
01:18:48,390 --> 01:18:46,320
i documented where everybody was on this

2311
01:18:50,229 --> 01:18:48,400
aircraft uh the bodies they recovered

2312
01:18:52,470 --> 01:18:50,239
again only 19 or 44

2313
01:18:53,830 --> 01:18:52,480
were recovered uh and it really couldn't

2314
01:18:56,790 --> 01:18:53,840
conclude anything

2315
01:18:58,149 --> 01:18:56,800
except that the folks and first class

2316
01:18:59,030 --> 01:18:58,159
which was at the back of the plane in

2317
01:19:00,950 --> 01:18:59,040
those days

2318
01:19:02,470 --> 01:19:00,960
seem to have survived better excuse me

2319
01:19:04,870 --> 01:19:02,480
have a bit less damn

2320
01:19:06,390 --> 01:19:04,880
less body damage and less fatal injuries

2321
01:19:06,870 --> 01:19:06,400
than the folks in the front of the plane

2322
01:19:10,470 --> 01:19:06,880
so

2323
01:19:12,709 --> 01:19:10,480
at the front of the plane that

2324
01:19:14,149 --> 01:19:12,719
that caused this and it could have been

2325
01:19:15,990 --> 01:19:14,159
an intentional induction

2326
01:19:17,830 --> 01:19:16,000
introduction of co2 in the to the

2327
01:19:19,270 --> 01:19:17,840
cockpit and that was one of the things

2328
01:19:21,110 --> 01:19:19,280
that the federal authorities looked at

2329
01:19:23,669 --> 01:19:21,120
did somebody intentionally

2330
01:19:24,229 --> 01:19:23,679
uh knocked the crew out because the

2331
01:19:25,910 --> 01:19:24,239
plane

2332
01:19:27,990 --> 01:19:25,920
seemed to fly and it flew off course

2333
01:19:28,950 --> 01:19:28,000
again martin remember this for 90 plus

2334
01:19:31,669 --> 01:19:28,960
miles

2335
01:19:33,669 --> 01:19:31,679
and to be where the wreckage was found

2336
01:19:36,070 --> 01:19:33,679
the plane had to be going almost full

2337
01:19:36,870 --> 01:19:36,080
speed so that kind of discounts the

2338
01:19:38,630 --> 01:19:36,880
notion

2339
01:19:40,790 --> 01:19:38,640
that it had engine failure or two

2340
01:19:42,070 --> 01:19:40,800
engines went out and the plane was just

2341
01:19:43,590 --> 01:19:42,080
fighting to stay in the air it was

2342
01:19:46,149 --> 01:19:43,600
almost more like

2343
01:19:47,030 --> 01:19:46,159
they the crew had been incapacitated for

2344
01:19:49,990 --> 01:19:47,040
some reason

2345
01:19:51,590 --> 01:19:50,000
and simply flew it into the ocean um

2346
01:19:53,430 --> 01:19:51,600
again another mystery that we'll never

2347
01:19:54,870 --> 01:19:53,440
know the answer to unless and until we

2348
01:19:55,830 --> 01:19:54,880
find what's left at the bottom of the

2349
01:19:59,590 --> 01:19:55,840
ocean but

2350
01:20:01,430 --> 01:19:59,600
uh pretty interesting but that uh again

2351
01:20:03,910 --> 01:20:01,440
when the people had their life life

2352
01:20:07,510 --> 01:20:03,920
preservers on life vests on

2353
01:20:09,270 --> 01:20:07,520
shoes off that definitely uh

2354
01:20:10,790 --> 01:20:09,280
that definitely is preparation for a

2355
01:20:13,830 --> 01:20:10,800
ditch absolutely

2356
01:20:16,310 --> 01:20:13,840
and thinking is people in some

2357
01:20:17,110 --> 01:20:16,320
part of the plane were aware and others

2358
01:20:19,110 --> 01:20:17,120
were not

2359
01:20:20,629 --> 01:20:19,120
it may have been that quickly the event

2360
01:20:22,550 --> 01:20:20,639
that occurred was so sudden

2361
01:20:23,910 --> 01:20:22,560
that i'm of the opinion that some people

2362
01:20:26,550 --> 01:20:23,920
were alerted and some people

2363
01:20:27,430 --> 01:20:26,560
were not uh because the people who were

2364
01:20:28,950 --> 01:20:27,440
alerted were

2365
01:20:30,629 --> 01:20:28,960
again those mostly in the rear of the

2366
01:20:31,669 --> 01:20:30,639
plane and people in the front were not

2367
01:20:32,870 --> 01:20:31,679
alerted

2368
01:20:34,629 --> 01:20:32,880
or maybe they were in the middle of a

2369
01:20:36,470 --> 01:20:34,639
catastrophe and simply didn't have time

2370
01:20:37,830 --> 01:20:36,480
to put on life jackets and take shoes

2371
01:20:40,149 --> 01:20:37,840
off and that sort of thing

2372
01:20:41,990 --> 01:20:40,159
there was a deadheaded pilot who was in

2373
01:20:43,669 --> 01:20:42,000
first class at the rear of the plane

2374
01:20:46,229 --> 01:20:43,679
and one of my thoughts all along has

2375
01:20:48,950 --> 01:20:46,239
been that this fellow robert alexander

2376
01:20:50,470 --> 01:20:48,960
uh became aware very quickly something

2377
01:20:52,149 --> 01:20:50,480
is wrong in the front of this aircraft

2378
01:20:53,910 --> 01:20:52,159
something's happened here

2379
01:20:55,750 --> 01:20:53,920
so he may have alerted the people in the

2380
01:20:57,910 --> 01:20:55,760
rear the first class folks

2381
01:21:00,149 --> 01:20:57,920
get your life gear uh life jacket on

2382
01:21:01,910 --> 01:21:00,159
take your shoes off we're going down

2383
01:21:03,590 --> 01:21:01,920
and i've always realized that maybe he

2384
01:21:05,510 --> 01:21:03,600
rushed to the to the cockpit to see if

2385
01:21:07,669 --> 01:21:05,520
he could render some assistance

2386
01:21:09,910 --> 01:21:07,679
uh and was simply not able to reach it

2387
01:21:13,350 --> 01:21:09,920
or to provide any assistance

2388
01:21:14,070 --> 01:21:13,360
yeah this this must be uh must be very

2389
01:21:16,870 --> 01:21:14,080
frustrating

2390
01:21:18,870 --> 01:21:16,880
for you all these years and uh you know

2391
01:21:20,149 --> 01:21:18,880
to get a real there's no black boxes

2392
01:21:23,189 --> 01:21:20,159
there weren't

2393
01:21:24,870 --> 01:21:23,199
black boxes back then um there was uh

2394
01:21:27,030 --> 01:21:24,880
there was just the tape of uh

2395
01:21:28,870 --> 01:21:27,040
you know from the radio towers basically

2396
01:21:31,030 --> 01:21:28,880
yeah and back to that tape

2397
01:21:33,030 --> 01:21:31,040
greg talked about that earlier no one

2398
01:21:34,870 --> 01:21:33,040
ever could conclude what was on

2399
01:21:36,149 --> 01:21:34,880
the tape pan am and the civil

2400
01:21:38,550 --> 01:21:36,159
aeronautics board

2401
01:21:40,149 --> 01:21:38,560
both refused to acknowledge that that

2402
01:21:41,510 --> 01:21:40,159
that was even a recording from the

2403
01:21:44,629 --> 01:21:41,520
aircraft

2404
01:21:44,950 --> 01:21:44,639
although to us we believe it was uh uh

2405
01:21:46,390 --> 01:21:44,960
that

2406
01:21:48,229 --> 01:21:46,400
indicated there was something wrong with

2407
01:21:50,709 --> 01:21:48,239
the plane but but officially

2408
01:21:51,830 --> 01:21:50,719
uh the cab and pan am they spent

2409
01:21:53,510 --> 01:21:51,840
thousands of hours

2410
01:21:55,350 --> 01:21:53,520
trying to analyze this thing and never

2411
01:21:56,310 --> 01:21:55,360
could determine what was even said if it

2412
01:21:59,350 --> 01:21:56,320
came from that

2413
01:22:00,950 --> 01:21:59,360
from the aircraft or not

2414
01:22:02,470 --> 01:22:00,960
can we pivot for a moment i know we're

2415
01:22:04,310 --> 01:22:02,480
getting short on time here and

2416
01:22:05,510 --> 01:22:04,320
maybe oh no we got we got plenty we got

2417
01:22:08,070 --> 01:22:05,520
we're a half an hour

2418
01:22:09,590 --> 01:22:08,080
yeah we're half and half an hour still

2419
01:22:11,030 --> 01:22:09,600
yeah we still have a half an hour left

2420
01:22:11,669 --> 01:22:11,040
plus we're going to be taking calls on a

2421
01:22:14,149 --> 01:22:11,679
little bit

2422
01:22:15,189 --> 01:22:14,159
right i'm sure we got to my third p

2423
01:22:18,470 --> 01:22:15,199
before this uh

2424
01:22:20,390 --> 01:22:18,480
this ended so we're we're good yeah uh

2425
01:22:22,149 --> 01:22:20,400
so what were you going to uh go ahead

2426
01:22:23,110 --> 01:22:22,159
and talk about well i was going to tell

2427
01:22:26,550 --> 01:22:23,120
you i examined

2428
01:22:28,310 --> 01:22:26,560
my three p's again payne the passenger

2429
01:22:31,189 --> 01:22:28,320
the fella who had uh

2430
01:22:32,149 --> 01:22:31,199
the huge amounts of insurance also had

2431
01:22:34,390 --> 01:22:32,159
underwater uh

2432
01:22:35,189 --> 01:22:34,400
demolition experience he was using

2433
01:22:38,070 --> 01:22:35,199
incidentally

2434
01:22:39,750 --> 01:22:38,080
uh dynamite in his mining he also did

2435
01:22:42,390 --> 01:22:39,760
mining on the side chrome mining

2436
01:22:43,750 --> 01:22:42,400
in northern california outside his lodge

2437
01:22:46,310 --> 01:22:43,760
he uh

2438
01:22:47,750 --> 01:22:46,320
uh an investigator for the insurance

2439
01:22:49,590 --> 01:22:47,760
company who's part of this book a

2440
01:22:52,390 --> 01:22:49,600
central fell in this book

2441
01:22:53,430 --> 01:22:52,400
uh was convinced that payne never got on

2442
01:22:56,950 --> 01:22:53,440
the plane

2443
01:22:57,830 --> 01:22:56,960
that blew it up in a an insurance fraud

2444
01:23:01,189 --> 01:22:57,840
scheme up

2445
01:23:04,310 --> 01:23:01,199
possibly with his wife and uh

2446
01:23:07,510 --> 01:23:04,320
he went to his grave martin uh

2447
01:23:09,910 --> 01:23:07,520
not talking to me uh we exchanged

2448
01:23:11,189 --> 01:23:09,920
letters cryptic letters through the year

2449
01:23:14,149 --> 01:23:11,199
so many times

2450
01:23:15,830 --> 01:23:14,159
and in his final years actually the

2451
01:23:17,590 --> 01:23:15,840
final months of his life

2452
01:23:19,270 --> 01:23:17,600
he began to communicate with me in

2453
01:23:21,350 --> 01:23:19,280
letters and said to me

2454
01:23:22,870 --> 01:23:21,360
you know i believe in in god and i

2455
01:23:24,390 --> 01:23:22,880
believe in life hereafter

2456
01:23:26,390 --> 01:23:24,400
and i believe you know i need to tell

2457
01:23:28,790 --> 01:23:26,400
you what i think went on

2458
01:23:30,310 --> 01:23:28,800
and he began to share bits and pieces of

2459
01:23:33,189 --> 01:23:30,320
information with me

2460
01:23:33,990 --> 01:23:33,199
uh that he was convinced that that pain

2461
01:23:36,470 --> 01:23:34,000
uh blew

2462
01:23:38,470 --> 01:23:36,480
the plane up in some way and certainly

2463
01:23:39,030 --> 01:23:38,480
the evidence was uh what evidence there

2464
01:23:41,510 --> 01:23:39,040
is was

2465
01:23:43,430 --> 01:23:41,520
was pretty strong that that he was a a

2466
01:23:46,790 --> 01:23:43,440
very strong suspect

2467
01:23:48,709 --> 01:23:46,800
um he spent hundreds of hours all over

2468
01:23:50,149 --> 01:23:48,719
northern california and oregon in

2469
01:23:51,669 --> 01:23:50,159
washington state

2470
01:23:53,830 --> 01:23:51,679
learning everything he could find out

2471
01:23:56,629 --> 01:23:53,840
about this fellow pain

2472
01:23:58,149 --> 01:23:56,639
and uh he was convinced as well as the

2473
01:23:59,350 --> 01:23:58,159
president of the insurance company they

2474
01:24:01,030 --> 01:23:59,360
were both convinced

2475
01:24:02,390 --> 01:24:01,040
that they he didn't get on pain on the

2476
01:24:04,229 --> 01:24:02,400
plane mr

2477
01:24:05,990 --> 01:24:04,239
styles russell styles is his name he

2478
01:24:07,830 --> 01:24:06,000
lived in uh colorado

2479
01:24:09,030 --> 01:24:07,840
told me one time that he wouldn't talk

2480
01:24:10,870 --> 01:24:09,040
to me on the telephone

2481
01:24:12,470 --> 01:24:10,880
he was afraid to talk on the phone he

2482
01:24:14,709 --> 01:24:12,480
was paranoid about this

2483
01:24:16,470 --> 01:24:14,719
and i said why are you afraid to talk to

2484
01:24:18,629 --> 01:24:16,480
me about this mr stiles he said

2485
01:24:19,830 --> 01:24:18,639
they would stop at nothing ken i said

2486
01:24:22,470 --> 01:24:19,840
what do you mean he says

2487
01:24:25,030 --> 01:24:22,480
there's no statute of limitations for

2488
01:24:26,950 --> 01:24:25,040
what i'm talking about here

2489
01:24:29,189 --> 01:24:26,960
he was absolutely convinced that that

2490
01:24:30,950 --> 01:24:29,199
pain uh blew this plane up

2491
01:24:32,390 --> 01:24:30,960
for insurance purposes and was living

2492
01:24:34,950 --> 01:24:32,400
happily ever after

2493
01:24:36,470 --> 01:24:34,960
uh in south america or somewhere another

2494
01:24:38,149 --> 01:24:36,480
interesting point about that is that

2495
01:24:41,030 --> 01:24:38,159
payne's widow

2496
01:24:42,870 --> 01:24:41,040
began receiving letters from uh i

2497
01:24:45,030 --> 01:24:42,880
believe was mexico

2498
01:24:46,790 --> 01:24:45,040
after the plane went down the post

2499
01:24:48,470 --> 01:24:46,800
mistress this little town of scott mark

2500
01:24:51,030 --> 01:24:48,480
california where they lived said

2501
01:24:53,430 --> 01:24:51,040
she had never gotten mail from mexico

2502
01:24:55,350 --> 01:24:53,440
prior to this plane going down

2503
01:24:57,270 --> 01:24:55,360
that was another interesting tidbit and

2504
01:24:58,070 --> 01:24:57,280
then i found some people who knew the

2505
01:25:00,950 --> 01:24:58,080
pains at the time

2506
01:25:02,149 --> 01:25:00,960
and said they just kind of fell off the

2507
01:25:04,310 --> 01:25:02,159
planet afterwards

2508
01:25:06,629 --> 01:25:04,320
they never had a funeral for this guy

2509
01:25:08,709 --> 01:25:06,639
there was never any public grieving

2510
01:25:10,310 --> 01:25:08,719
they just kind of disappeared his wife

2511
01:25:11,750 --> 01:25:10,320
took her insurance money and

2512
01:25:14,229 --> 01:25:11,760
sold the lodge after it burned the

2513
01:25:16,950 --> 01:25:14,239
ground mysteriously it was an arson job

2514
01:25:17,590 --> 01:25:16,960
and ended up down in central california

2515
01:25:20,629 --> 01:25:17,600
opening

2516
01:25:23,910 --> 01:25:20,639
another lodge so payne

2517
01:25:25,910 --> 01:25:23,920
certainly was to me a higher

2518
01:25:27,910 --> 01:25:25,920
priority suspect than cross weight at

2519
01:25:28,709 --> 01:25:27,920
the time crossway simply changed his

2520
01:25:32,629 --> 01:25:28,719
flight uh

2521
01:25:36,070 --> 01:25:32,639
and and that was

2522
01:25:39,510 --> 01:25:36,080
pretty much it okay so pain

2523
01:25:40,229 --> 01:25:39,520
number one p purser uh is number two and

2524
01:25:43,590 --> 01:25:40,239
propeller

2525
01:25:45,669 --> 01:25:43,600
the purser is the fella that that uh

2526
01:25:48,149 --> 01:25:45,679
i began to look at once i learned that

2527
01:25:50,390 --> 01:25:48,159
he was a suspect of pan am

2528
01:25:51,189 --> 01:25:50,400
and and the cab and remember he was

2529
01:25:54,629 --> 01:25:51,199
never mentioned

2530
01:25:56,390 --> 01:25:54,639
in the press ever uh his family

2531
01:25:58,390 --> 01:25:56,400
uh to this day doesn't believe he was

2532
01:26:00,149 --> 01:25:58,400
involved and thinks he was somehow

2533
01:26:01,910 --> 01:26:00,159
cleared by the fbi

2534
01:26:03,270 --> 01:26:01,920
and uh would never have done such a

2535
01:26:07,110 --> 01:26:03,280
dastardly

2536
01:26:09,189 --> 01:26:07,120
as bringing this plane down uh

2537
01:26:10,390 --> 01:26:09,199
yeah i'm sure her family's going to say

2538
01:26:13,110 --> 01:26:10,400
that um

2539
01:26:13,910 --> 01:26:13,120
you know just in in all that you're

2540
01:26:17,110 --> 01:26:13,920
saying

2541
01:26:21,189 --> 01:26:17,120
uh it seems to me that uh

2542
01:26:23,669 --> 01:26:21,199
pain does seem like a very good suspect

2543
01:26:25,030 --> 01:26:23,679
absolutely all the things that add up

2544
01:26:28,149 --> 01:26:25,040
i'm surprised that

2545
01:26:30,790 --> 01:26:28,159
that wasn't investigated more well

2546
01:26:32,070 --> 01:26:30,800
payne martin i don't know how to explain

2547
01:26:33,669 --> 01:26:32,080
this fella to you

2548
01:26:35,350 --> 01:26:33,679
there's not a picture of him that exists

2549
01:26:36,070 --> 01:26:35,360
on the planet so far as i know even in

2550
01:26:39,189 --> 01:26:36,080
the navy

2551
01:26:40,790 --> 01:26:39,199
we can't find him i can't i it took me

2552
01:26:42,550 --> 01:26:40,800
years let me tell you even to prove that

2553
01:26:46,229 --> 01:26:42,560
the guy existed

2554
01:26:48,070 --> 01:26:46,239
uh he's just a just a mystery man

2555
01:26:49,590 --> 01:26:48,080
and that added more fuel to the fire

2556
01:26:51,910 --> 01:26:49,600
that he was the

2557
01:26:52,629 --> 01:26:51,920
the fellow who brought this plane down

2558
01:26:54,790 --> 01:26:52,639
and uh

2559
01:26:55,910 --> 01:26:54,800
then again i look at the investigator

2560
01:26:57,510 --> 01:26:55,920
the mr styles

2561
01:26:59,350 --> 01:26:57,520
i tried to get his notes for years he

2562
01:27:01,270 --> 01:26:59,360
wouldn't let me have his notes

2563
01:27:02,709 --> 01:27:01,280
uh he said they were property of the

2564
01:27:05,030 --> 01:27:02,719
insurance company and he was afraid of

2565
01:27:05,590 --> 01:27:05,040
being sued and all of these other things

2566
01:27:12,709 --> 01:27:05,600
and

2567
01:27:15,030 --> 01:27:12,719
said they didn't exist

2568
01:27:16,629 --> 01:27:15,040
i asked the ntsb for copies of these

2569
01:27:18,470 --> 01:27:16,639
records and they said they didn't exist

2570
01:27:20,470 --> 01:27:18,480
well i knew that was a damn lie

2571
01:27:22,070 --> 01:27:20,480
because payne said that he gave this

2572
01:27:24,229 --> 01:27:22,080
information to the fbi

2573
01:27:25,750 --> 01:27:24,239
it took me years and years and years to

2574
01:27:27,990 --> 01:27:25,760
get them

2575
01:27:30,709 --> 01:27:28,000
about the time the fbi acknowledged this

2576
01:27:33,750 --> 01:27:30,719
we do have some pain records here

2577
01:27:37,669 --> 01:27:33,760
i finally convinced uh mr uh

2578
01:27:39,189 --> 01:27:37,679
uh styles investigators daughter uh to

2579
01:27:41,270 --> 01:27:39,199
look for her dad's records and see if

2580
01:27:42,310 --> 01:27:41,280
she could uh see it in her heart to let

2581
01:27:45,030 --> 01:27:42,320
me have them

2582
01:27:46,790 --> 01:27:45,040
two years later she finally sent me uh

2583
01:27:49,030 --> 01:27:46,800
some cryptic copies of some of his

2584
01:27:50,229 --> 01:27:49,040
notes and he was again he was convinced

2585
01:27:54,149 --> 01:27:50,239
that the guy

2586
01:27:57,350 --> 01:27:54,159
blew the plane up in some way uh and

2587
01:27:58,470 --> 01:27:57,360
again he was a prime suspect yeah yeah

2588
01:28:01,510 --> 01:27:58,480
that is uh

2589
01:28:03,189 --> 01:28:01,520
that that it just seems like that kind

2590
01:28:04,550 --> 01:28:03,199
of fits and it's

2591
01:28:06,470 --> 01:28:04,560
just a terrible thing to think if

2592
01:28:09,590 --> 01:28:06,480
someone could have been that selfish

2593
01:28:10,390 --> 01:28:09,600
um you know to have uh killed those of

2594
01:28:14,870 --> 01:28:10,400
44

2595
01:28:17,910 --> 01:28:14,880
people board

2596
01:28:19,750 --> 01:28:17,920
38 or six crew yeah yeah yeah

2597
01:28:21,110 --> 01:28:19,760
uh just to let everyone know the uh

2598
01:28:23,030 --> 01:28:21,120
phone lines are open

2599
01:28:24,229 --> 01:28:23,040
and we do have a bill over there

2600
01:28:27,590 --> 01:28:24,239
screening the calls

2601
01:28:30,070 --> 01:28:27,600
at 855-472-5483

2602
01:28:31,669 --> 01:28:30,080
and uh uh give a call if you have a

2603
01:28:35,910 --> 01:28:31,679
question for our guest tonight

2604
01:28:38,470 --> 01:28:35,920
um so uh you know where do you

2605
01:28:39,110 --> 01:28:38,480
does this ever this search ever end for

2606
01:28:43,030 --> 01:28:39,120
you or

2607
01:28:45,910 --> 01:28:43,040
it means it ends for me in the book

2608
01:28:46,470 --> 01:28:45,920
okay give away my book right now but

2609
01:28:49,350 --> 01:28:46,480
yeah i

2610
01:28:51,110 --> 01:28:49,360
i've convinced i'm convinced that i've

2611
01:28:53,270 --> 01:28:51,120
come to a conclusion thank you there it

2612
01:28:54,550 --> 01:28:53,280
is flight 7 is missing the search for my

2613
01:28:57,669 --> 01:28:54,560
father's killer

2614
01:28:59,430 --> 01:28:57,679
uh i again examined everything i could

2615
01:29:02,550 --> 01:28:59,440
possibly examine martin

2616
01:29:03,350 --> 01:29:02,560
i have my god the boxes and documents

2617
01:29:08,950 --> 01:29:03,360
and the

2618
01:29:12,470 --> 01:29:08,960
i've investigated through the years and

2619
01:29:15,270 --> 01:29:12,480
again i i i tried to to decide you know

2620
01:29:15,910 --> 01:29:15,280
is the angle that i'm i'm pursuing is it

2621
01:29:19,110 --> 01:29:15,920
possible

2622
01:29:21,189 --> 01:29:19,120
is it is it is it probable you know uh

2623
01:29:22,709 --> 01:29:21,199
is is it is it likely that it could have

2624
01:29:25,750 --> 01:29:22,719
happened i discounted

2625
01:29:27,430 --> 01:29:25,760
all of these things uh even in pain pain

2626
01:29:29,110 --> 01:29:27,440
never showed up he's never shown up

2627
01:29:31,189 --> 01:29:29,120
again his records have never shown up

2628
01:29:32,070 --> 01:29:31,199
his fbi fingerprints have never shown up

2629
01:29:35,430 --> 01:29:32,080
again

2630
01:29:37,510 --> 01:29:35,440
on the planet

2631
01:29:38,709 --> 01:29:37,520
so if he blew the puck up and he was on

2632
01:29:40,790 --> 01:29:38,719
the plane

2633
01:29:42,070 --> 01:29:40,800
uh that's why they haven't seen him

2634
01:29:43,750 --> 01:29:42,080
again if it was

2635
01:29:45,669 --> 01:29:43,760
insurance fraud and he did it with his

2636
01:29:47,350 --> 01:29:45,679
wife in some way and he's living happily

2637
01:29:48,709 --> 01:29:47,360
ever after lived happily ever after in

2638
01:29:51,669 --> 01:29:48,719
south america whatever

2639
01:29:52,149 --> 01:29:51,679
he never he never surfaced again uh she

2640
01:29:55,910 --> 01:29:52,159
never

2641
01:29:58,149 --> 01:29:55,920
surfaced to to the degree that uh

2642
01:29:59,910 --> 01:29:58,159
nothing about her indicated that that

2643
01:30:03,430 --> 01:29:59,920
she was involved in something like

2644
01:30:05,510 --> 01:30:03,440
an insurance uh plot either

2645
01:30:06,709 --> 01:30:05,520
i just i looked at it and i examined it

2646
01:30:09,110 --> 01:30:06,719
and again i i just

2647
01:30:10,070 --> 01:30:09,120
i just not uh not convinced that he that

2648
01:30:12,070 --> 01:30:10,080
he did that

2649
01:30:14,550 --> 01:30:12,080
now hell who knows i mean the bottom of

2650
01:30:16,629 --> 01:30:14,560
the ocean tells the real story i suppose

2651
01:30:17,590 --> 01:30:16,639
uh but right but i don't think the

2652
01:30:20,950 --> 01:30:17,600
evidence supports

2653
01:30:21,510 --> 01:30:20,960
uh that he did it well i hear your clock

2654
01:30:23,510 --> 01:30:21,520
chiming

2655
01:30:25,510 --> 01:30:23,520
so it's time to take our first call we

2656
01:30:28,950 --> 01:30:25,520
have steve calling from

2657
01:30:32,790 --> 01:30:28,960
california welcome to the show steve

2658
01:30:36,229 --> 01:30:32,800
thank you martin uh ken um according to

2659
01:30:39,830 --> 01:30:36,239
uh researcher uh stanton freeman

2660
01:30:41,990 --> 01:30:39,840
uh there wasn't in 1952 truman gave an

2661
01:30:44,229 --> 01:30:42,000
order to shoot them down

2662
01:30:45,270 --> 01:30:44,239
which uh some of our military aircraft

2663
01:30:48,310 --> 01:30:45,280
were

2664
01:30:51,830 --> 01:30:48,320
trying to shoot some of these ufos down

2665
01:30:53,669 --> 01:30:51,840
frank pacino wrote a book called 1952

2666
01:30:57,110 --> 01:30:53,679
their war

2667
01:31:00,229 --> 01:30:57,120
raids were uh shooting

2668
01:31:02,229 --> 01:31:00,239
with a book regarding all the planes

2669
01:31:05,669 --> 01:31:02,239
that were crashing

2670
01:31:05,990 --> 01:31:05,679
in the 50s and and they were covering

2671
01:31:09,350 --> 01:31:06,000
them

2672
01:31:11,590 --> 01:31:09,360
up uh the military uh

2673
01:31:14,070 --> 01:31:11,600
some of these pilots were dying and he's

2674
01:31:17,510 --> 01:31:14,080
getting shot down by ufos

2675
01:31:20,229 --> 01:31:17,520
and there's many cases uh do you think

2676
01:31:21,110 --> 01:31:20,239
uh there was a cover-up within the

2677
01:31:24,149 --> 01:31:21,120
military

2678
01:31:26,070 --> 01:31:24,159
uh dude or any information with regard

2679
01:31:27,830 --> 01:31:26,080
to my dad's crash uh steve is that what

2680
01:31:30,709 --> 01:31:27,840
you're asking particularly

2681
01:31:31,270 --> 01:31:30,719
uh if so let me say this i looked at

2682
01:31:33,350 --> 01:31:31,280
again

2683
01:31:35,350 --> 01:31:33,360
everything i could look at on in that

2684
01:31:36,149 --> 01:31:35,360
week i looked everything from missile

2685
01:31:39,270 --> 01:31:36,159
testing in

2686
01:31:42,709 --> 01:31:39,280
in the area to whether the aircraft were

2687
01:31:45,750 --> 01:31:42,719
flying in that area um i don't

2688
01:31:46,950 --> 01:31:45,760
i don't know i i will i just don't know

2689
01:31:48,870 --> 01:31:46,960
i don't think so

2690
01:31:50,149 --> 01:31:48,880
i don't think there's any cover-up with

2691
01:31:51,990 --> 01:31:50,159
regard to the the

2692
01:31:53,990 --> 01:31:52,000
maybe the government shooting something

2693
01:31:56,070 --> 01:31:54,000
down i i do think this is interesting

2694
01:31:58,470 --> 01:31:56,080
and i forgot to mention this earlier

2695
01:32:00,470 --> 01:31:58,480
the first uh reports after the plane

2696
01:32:01,189 --> 01:32:00,480
went down the first thing that anyone

2697
01:32:03,430 --> 01:32:01,199
heard

2698
01:32:04,709 --> 01:32:03,440
was a pilot reporting the mysterious

2699
01:32:07,910 --> 01:32:04,719
lights

2700
01:32:11,189 --> 01:32:07,920
in the area and the early uh

2701
01:32:13,110 --> 01:32:11,199
ap and upi dispatches mentioned that

2702
01:32:15,110 --> 01:32:13,120
that mysterious lights were sighted in

2703
01:32:16,470 --> 01:32:15,120
the area before this pan am plane

2704
01:32:19,189 --> 01:32:16,480
disappeared

2705
01:32:20,629 --> 01:32:19,199
strangely enough uh there's never

2706
01:32:22,790 --> 01:32:20,639
another mention of that

2707
01:32:24,149 --> 01:32:22,800
i have no clue what those mysterious

2708
01:32:25,750 --> 01:32:24,159
lights were there's nothing in any

2709
01:32:27,430 --> 01:32:25,760
government documents that i've been able

2710
01:32:30,629 --> 01:32:27,440
to find that even uh

2711
01:32:31,669 --> 01:32:30,639
note that that that occurred certainly

2712
01:32:34,310 --> 01:32:31,679
interesting

2713
01:32:35,669 --> 01:32:34,320
um but i i i just don't know what that

2714
01:32:35,990 --> 01:32:35,679
may have been it could have been uh you

2715
01:32:38,709 --> 01:32:36,000
know

2716
01:32:39,669 --> 01:32:38,719
just an aircraft below maybe where the

2717
01:32:41,590 --> 01:32:39,679
our plane was

2718
01:32:42,870 --> 01:32:41,600
flying i don't know but it was an

2719
01:32:43,590 --> 01:32:42,880
interesting angle that they thought

2720
01:32:46,149 --> 01:32:43,600
there was something

2721
01:32:48,870 --> 01:32:46,159
mysterious lights in in the area before

2722
01:32:51,350 --> 01:32:48,880
the plane went down

2723
01:32:51,990 --> 01:32:51,360
that's interesting because uh there is a

2724
01:32:54,790 --> 01:32:52,000
history

2725
01:32:55,910 --> 01:32:54,800
in the ufo phenomena of planes

2726
01:32:58,629 --> 01:32:55,920
disappearing

2727
01:32:58,950 --> 01:32:58,639
one in uh there was one in uh michigan

2728
01:33:00,950 --> 01:32:58,960
lake

2729
01:33:03,189 --> 01:33:00,960
erie that uh back i think it was in the

2730
01:33:06,470 --> 01:33:03,199
50s where one was missing

2731
01:33:10,229 --> 01:33:06,480
a jet um uh the the flight

2732
01:33:12,390 --> 01:33:10,239
of alaska uh the one uh they felt that

2733
01:33:13,990 --> 01:33:12,400
that that big ufo was trying to take the

2734
01:33:14,790 --> 01:33:14,000
plane they felt that they were going to

2735
01:33:17,750 --> 01:33:14,800
be kidnapped

2736
01:33:18,790 --> 01:33:17,760
but that it was going the one in

2737
01:33:20,830 --> 01:33:18,800
australia

2738
01:33:22,070 --> 01:33:20,840
the young pilot that disappeared staying

2739
01:33:26,709 --> 01:33:22,080
over

2740
01:33:28,790 --> 01:33:26,719
possible that something happened

2741
01:33:31,910 --> 01:33:28,800
regarding a ufo

2742
01:33:34,390 --> 01:33:31,920
you know you d again who knows uh but i

2743
01:33:35,590 --> 01:33:34,400
i i would say it's it's certainly a

2744
01:33:37,669 --> 01:33:35,600
possibility

2745
01:33:39,830 --> 01:33:37,679
i mean again this plane is flying with

2746
01:33:42,629 --> 01:33:39,840
absolutely no problem at all at five

2747
01:33:43,350 --> 01:33:42,639
o'clock 525 it's at the bottom of the

2748
01:33:46,470 --> 01:33:43,360
ocean

2749
01:33:47,750 --> 01:33:46,480
without really a word of warning uh and

2750
01:33:50,229 --> 01:33:47,760
the plane was god you gotta understand

2751
01:33:51,990 --> 01:33:50,239
they got back up generators for radios

2752
01:33:53,510 --> 01:33:52,000
they have if they can lose two or three

2753
01:33:53,990 --> 01:33:53,520
engines and still be able to fly that

2754
01:34:00,070 --> 01:33:54,000
plane

2755
01:34:02,470 --> 01:34:00,080
in that 25 minutes uh that

2756
01:34:04,629 --> 01:34:02,480
of course caused it to crash but but who

2757
01:34:06,790 --> 01:34:04,639
knows i mean that is still a very

2758
01:34:08,470 --> 01:34:06,800
remote possibility but who knows what

2759
01:34:09,830 --> 01:34:08,480
happened there have been some people

2760
01:34:11,270 --> 01:34:09,840
interestingly through the years and

2761
01:34:13,830 --> 01:34:11,280
folks who follow

2762
01:34:15,669 --> 01:34:13,840
ufos much more than i do even have

2763
01:34:16,470 --> 01:34:15,679
speculated just what you're saying there

2764
01:34:18,390 --> 01:34:16,480
steve

2765
01:34:19,510 --> 01:34:18,400
that uh that maybe that plane was

2766
01:34:21,830 --> 01:34:19,520
brought down uh

2767
01:34:23,510 --> 01:34:21,840
by a ufo electromagnetic interference

2768
01:34:25,030 --> 01:34:23,520
maybe not even intentionally maybe just

2769
01:34:26,229 --> 01:34:25,040
messing around with it to see what they

2770
01:34:28,790 --> 01:34:26,239
could do to it

2771
01:34:30,790 --> 01:34:28,800
uh and it was it was brought down uh

2772
01:34:32,390 --> 01:34:30,800
somewhere else i read many years ago and

2773
01:34:33,030 --> 01:34:32,400
i think it's disappeared on the internet

2774
01:34:34,629 --> 01:34:33,040
now

2775
01:34:36,070 --> 01:34:34,639
someone theorized just that it was

2776
01:34:39,030 --> 01:34:36,080
brought down intentionally

2777
01:34:41,669 --> 01:34:39,040
and they said it was because my dad uh

2778
01:34:43,030 --> 01:34:41,679
had been involved in 1952 sighting that

2779
01:34:47,430 --> 01:34:43,040
was strangely

2780
01:34:50,950 --> 01:34:47,440
coincidence i guess but again who knows

2781
01:34:53,510 --> 01:34:50,960
right hey anything else steve

2782
01:34:54,070 --> 01:34:53,520
uh that's all thank you very much martin

2783
01:34:56,870 --> 01:34:54,080
all right

2784
01:34:58,950 --> 01:34:56,880
thanks uh thanks for the call steve all

2785
01:35:01,430 --> 01:34:58,960
right we have uh we have another call

2786
01:35:03,030 --> 01:35:01,440
uh we have i'm trying to read this the

2787
01:35:06,149 --> 01:35:03,040
typing is very small

2788
01:35:07,990 --> 01:35:06,159
it looks like is it betty ann and

2789
01:35:09,669 --> 01:35:08,000
lacey from florida is that who i have

2790
01:35:12,070 --> 01:35:09,679
here

2791
01:35:14,310 --> 01:35:12,080
yeah that's exactly right we have so we

2792
01:35:18,310 --> 01:35:14,320
have two people on

2793
01:35:20,870 --> 01:35:18,320
yes uh and lacie you have

2794
01:35:21,510 --> 01:35:20,880
two very very special people there

2795
01:35:24,709 --> 01:35:21,520
martin

2796
01:35:28,629 --> 01:35:24,719
oh you know who these are okay awesome

2797
01:35:32,390 --> 01:35:28,639
yes i'm calling in as a ufo

2798
01:35:33,270 --> 01:35:32,400
uh interested person and also as a

2799
01:35:37,310 --> 01:35:33,280
member of

2800
01:35:40,310 --> 01:35:37,320
the uh the family unfortunately

2801
01:35:42,470 --> 01:35:40,320
of wonderful people who have lost

2802
01:35:44,550 --> 01:35:42,480
loved ones on this flight and who are

2803
01:35:47,750 --> 01:35:44,560
still searching for answers so

2804
01:35:48,149 --> 01:35:47,760
i'm calling because um one i wanted to

2805
01:35:51,430 --> 01:35:48,159
say

2806
01:35:54,149 --> 01:35:51,440
thank you so much for your work on this

2807
01:35:56,229 --> 01:35:54,159
topic i think it gives all of us hope

2808
01:35:59,350 --> 01:35:56,239
for answers and we're all

2809
01:36:02,950 --> 01:35:59,360
uh just so happy to support all of your

2810
01:36:04,390 --> 01:36:02,960
work on this project and and all of the

2811
01:36:06,790 --> 01:36:04,400
heart that you put into everything you

2812
01:36:09,109 --> 01:36:06,800
do ken so that's great

2813
01:36:10,470 --> 01:36:09,119
um i you know i just wanted to mention

2814
01:36:13,910 --> 01:36:10,480
too that like

2815
01:36:17,109 --> 01:36:13,920
even today we we see um

2816
01:36:20,070 --> 01:36:17,119
you know uh aircrafts are hitting uh

2817
01:36:20,870 --> 01:36:20,080
actual drones in the sky so you know

2818
01:36:24,030 --> 01:36:20,880
it's not

2819
01:36:27,109 --> 01:36:24,040
totally implausible that either

2820
01:36:28,709 --> 01:36:27,119
electromagnetic interference or you know

2821
01:36:31,109 --> 01:36:28,719
a strike could have happened

2822
01:36:31,990 --> 01:36:31,119
you know and even with what happened

2823
01:36:35,189 --> 01:36:32,000
with uh

2824
01:36:36,950 --> 01:36:35,199
sully you know he did he did you know

2825
01:36:39,350 --> 01:36:36,960
hit an object it was a bird

2826
01:36:40,709 --> 01:36:39,360
you know and and and these things happen

2827
01:36:42,470 --> 01:36:40,719
naturally and

2828
01:36:44,310 --> 01:36:42,480
you know there could have been something

2829
01:36:45,109 --> 01:36:44,320
from another planet that they hit you

2830
01:36:47,030 --> 01:36:45,119
know i mean

2831
01:36:49,830 --> 01:36:47,040
there's so many different possibilities

2832
01:36:52,870 --> 01:36:49,840
of what could occur and the thing is is

2833
01:36:55,109 --> 01:36:52,880
we have to keep asking questions and and

2834
01:36:55,910 --> 01:36:55,119
and uh holding people accountable and

2835
01:36:57,750 --> 01:36:55,920
we're just so

2836
01:36:59,990 --> 01:36:57,760
thankful that you're doing that for us

2837
01:37:01,109 --> 01:37:00,000
and so i'll stop talking and let my mom

2838
01:37:04,149 --> 01:37:01,119
say something too who's

2839
01:37:08,149 --> 01:37:04,159
also here i can i enjoy

2840
01:37:11,750 --> 01:37:08,159
so much and um it does put closure

2841
01:37:13,109 --> 01:37:11,760
on it for me to know um what happened to

2842
01:37:17,189 --> 01:37:13,119
my father

2843
01:37:20,149 --> 01:37:17,199
and um and to actually you know

2844
01:37:21,270 --> 01:37:20,159
be with you as you relived at that last

2845
01:37:24,550 --> 01:37:21,280
flight

2846
01:37:26,709 --> 01:37:24,560
uh i'll never forget it

2847
01:37:27,910 --> 01:37:26,719
ready ann you you very special person

2848
01:37:29,830 --> 01:37:27,920
and uh

2849
01:37:32,149 --> 01:37:29,840
folks who need to know betty ann was a

2850
01:37:34,709 --> 01:37:32,159
child as i was at the time and

2851
01:37:35,510 --> 01:37:34,719
and one of the most poignant parts of

2852
01:37:38,149 --> 01:37:35,520
this book to me

2853
01:37:39,990 --> 01:37:38,159
uh just a couple of paragraphs and betty

2854
01:37:40,950 --> 01:37:40,000
ann apologized for even mentioning this

2855
01:37:44,070 --> 01:37:40,960
now but

2856
01:37:46,229 --> 01:37:44,080
but it it strikes to my heart and this

2857
01:37:47,750 --> 01:37:46,239
betty ann's recall is a child looking up

2858
01:37:49,750 --> 01:37:47,760
in the sky and

2859
01:37:51,910 --> 01:37:49,760
and uh with her play telephone and

2860
01:37:54,790 --> 01:37:51,920
trying to call her daddy

2861
01:37:57,750 --> 01:37:54,800
who who was in heaven and uh when a

2862
01:37:59,590 --> 01:37:57,760
plane passed by or something and i just

2863
01:38:00,870 --> 01:37:59,600
the wagons have been very special people

2864
01:38:03,350 --> 01:38:00,880
to me and

2865
01:38:04,629 --> 01:38:03,360
and they and and this family from

2866
01:38:06,149 --> 01:38:04,639
midland michigan that i mentioned

2867
01:38:07,270 --> 01:38:06,159
earlier who lost so many folks on the

2868
01:38:09,109 --> 01:38:07,280
plane uh

2869
01:38:10,470 --> 01:38:09,119
it breaks my heart even now to even

2870
01:38:13,750 --> 01:38:10,480
think about

2871
01:38:17,189 --> 01:38:13,760
them and uh what they went through

2872
01:38:20,870 --> 01:38:17,199
yeah uh a totally life-changing and

2873
01:38:23,750 --> 01:38:20,880
and uh uh it must be

2874
01:38:24,229 --> 01:38:23,760
so hard uh for anyone you know you take

2875
01:38:27,350 --> 01:38:24,239
the

2876
01:38:30,070 --> 01:38:27,360
about earlier um

2877
01:38:31,270 --> 01:38:30,080
it just must be so difficult not to have

2878
01:38:32,149 --> 01:38:31,280
an answer

2879
01:38:34,950 --> 01:38:32,159
you know i mean that would be the

2880
01:38:37,189 --> 01:38:34,960
hardest part uh

2881
01:38:38,310 --> 01:38:37,199
what happened i'm not going to give away

2882
01:38:41,430 --> 01:38:38,320
the end of the book

2883
01:38:43,270 --> 01:38:41,440
but um i like your conclusion and i

2884
01:38:46,390 --> 01:38:43,280
totally agree with you

2885
01:38:47,990 --> 01:38:46,400
bless you for that you know i'm sure

2886
01:38:49,830 --> 01:38:48,000
there are people who disagree with that

2887
01:38:52,550 --> 01:38:49,840
and i can respect their opinion

2888
01:38:54,310 --> 01:38:52,560
i just my feeling is that after again

2889
01:38:57,430 --> 01:38:54,320
the lifelong search

2890
01:38:59,350 --> 01:38:57,440
um i'm confident with with my conclusion

2891
01:39:01,990 --> 01:38:59,360
as well and uh

2892
01:39:02,950 --> 01:39:02,000
it brought closure to me uh we can look

2893
01:39:04,550 --> 01:39:02,960
at all the other

2894
01:39:06,149 --> 01:39:04,560
possibilities and again as i say in the

2895
01:39:07,270 --> 01:39:06,159
book until somebody gets to the bottom

2896
01:39:08,950 --> 01:39:07,280
of the ocean and

2897
01:39:11,030 --> 01:39:08,960
and retrieves that wreckage and finds

2898
01:39:12,470 --> 01:39:11,040
something to prove otherwise as far as

2899
01:39:16,229 --> 01:39:12,480
i'm concerned

2900
01:39:19,189 --> 01:39:16,239
i found the answer yep i agree

2901
01:39:20,550 --> 01:39:19,199
how about um a gofundme page have we

2902
01:39:22,870 --> 01:39:20,560
ever thought about that at all

2903
01:39:24,149 --> 01:39:22,880
or you'd have to have a lot of money

2904
01:39:26,070 --> 01:39:24,159
listen i talked as i

2905
01:39:27,590 --> 01:39:26,080
mentioned earlier i talked to several

2906
01:39:28,950 --> 01:39:27,600
organizations that do deep sea

2907
01:39:31,350 --> 01:39:28,960
exploration and they're all

2908
01:39:33,030 --> 01:39:31,360
amenable to doing that but but honestly

2909
01:39:34,229 --> 01:39:33,040
it's a minimum fifty thousand dollars a

2910
01:39:36,550 --> 01:39:34,239
day once you get

2911
01:39:39,109 --> 01:39:36,560
uh pretty close to the location itself

2912
01:39:40,950 --> 01:39:39,119
and uh i've tried to interest the navy

2913
01:39:42,790 --> 01:39:40,960
and the the all the military because

2914
01:39:44,790 --> 01:39:42,800
they lost people on the plane

2915
01:39:46,229 --> 01:39:44,800
uh from the perspective you guys need to

2916
01:39:47,510 --> 01:39:46,239
get involved because you've got uh one

2917
01:39:48,310 --> 01:39:47,520
of your crew down the bottom of that

2918
01:39:50,390 --> 01:39:48,320
ocean and

2919
01:39:52,550 --> 01:39:50,400
i can never get anywhere i've gotten

2920
01:39:55,510 --> 01:39:52,560
nowhere uh with the government

2921
01:39:56,790 --> 01:39:55,520
at all in this entire uh search i got to

2922
01:39:57,750 --> 01:39:56,800
tell you it's been worse than pulling

2923
01:39:59,910 --> 01:39:57,760
teeth

2924
01:40:01,830 --> 01:39:59,920
now we're talking about also foyers

2925
01:40:03,109 --> 01:40:01,840
freedom of information absolutely

2926
01:40:04,550 --> 01:40:03,119
everything you know we didn't have for

2927
01:40:05,830 --> 01:40:04,560
you when i first got involved in this

2928
01:40:09,109 --> 01:40:05,840
that didn't exist

2929
01:40:11,750 --> 01:40:09,119
right so i've i've used for you uh

2930
01:40:12,229 --> 01:40:11,760
so many times i've filled books and

2931
01:40:15,189 --> 01:40:12,239
books

2932
01:40:16,550 --> 01:40:15,199
with my requests um but the the

2933
01:40:19,350 --> 01:40:16,560
government uh

2934
01:40:20,229 --> 01:40:19,360
all along fought tooth and nail maybe

2935
01:40:21,750 --> 01:40:20,239
because of

2936
01:40:23,830 --> 01:40:21,760
lack of interest maybe because they

2937
01:40:25,590 --> 01:40:23,840
realized they were negligent

2938
01:40:27,189 --> 01:40:25,600
but the government has been of no help

2939
01:40:29,910 --> 01:40:27,199
and back to your point about

2940
01:40:31,270 --> 01:40:29,920
trying to find it the government didn't

2941
01:40:33,430 --> 01:40:31,280
even wasn't even interested

2942
01:40:34,390 --> 01:40:33,440
in reopening the case and looking at the

2943
01:40:36,310 --> 01:40:34,400
case

2944
01:40:37,750 --> 01:40:36,320
when i presented them information a

2945
01:40:39,270 --> 01:40:37,760
couple of years ago

2946
01:40:41,510 --> 01:40:39,280
i said look you left this case

2947
01:40:42,550 --> 01:40:41,520
unresolved you said the investigation is

2948
01:40:45,030 --> 01:40:42,560
continuing

2949
01:40:47,270 --> 01:40:45,040
and and it hasn't and their response to

2950
01:40:49,430 --> 01:40:47,280
me was look because a strata cruiser is

2951
01:40:52,070 --> 01:40:49,440
no longer flying anymore

2952
01:40:53,109 --> 01:40:52,080
there's no uh relative reason to get

2953
01:40:55,109 --> 01:40:53,119
into that because

2954
01:40:56,870 --> 01:40:55,119
aviation safety cannot be improved by

2955
01:41:00,070 --> 01:40:56,880
what we may or may not find

2956
01:41:00,870 --> 01:41:00,080
uh on an extinct aircraft so they just

2957
01:41:04,070 --> 01:41:00,880
kissed me

2958
01:41:06,790 --> 01:41:04,080
and do anything those so

2959
01:41:08,229 --> 01:41:06,800
ongoing issues i mean those are lessons

2960
01:41:10,470 --> 01:41:08,239
learned that we never really

2961
01:41:13,510 --> 01:41:10,480
brought to bear on any kind of changes

2962
01:41:15,830 --> 01:41:13,520
so but that's outside the ufo topic so

2963
01:41:18,310 --> 01:41:15,840
that's okay you know one of one of the

2964
01:41:21,430 --> 01:41:18,320
one of the thoughts i have on this

2965
01:41:22,070 --> 01:41:21,440
is if they actually could find the plane

2966
01:41:24,070 --> 01:41:22,080
it could be

2967
01:41:26,229 --> 01:41:24,080
something like a mile down or you know i

2968
01:41:27,750 --> 01:41:26,239
mean the water is so deep in some of the

2969
01:41:30,390 --> 01:41:27,760
areas out there

2970
01:41:31,109 --> 01:41:30,400
if they actually did find the plane

2971
01:41:33,830 --> 01:41:31,119
would

2972
01:41:34,229 --> 01:41:33,840
do you think they could actually have a

2973
01:41:36,790 --> 01:41:34,239
more

2974
01:41:37,669 --> 01:41:36,800
answers because after all these years

2975
01:41:39,750 --> 01:41:37,679
well i think

2976
01:41:41,750 --> 01:41:39,760
i think i think the plane is probably in

2977
01:41:44,229 --> 01:41:41,760
two or three good sized pieces

2978
01:41:46,070 --> 01:41:44,239
uh i would think most of it if if we use

2979
01:41:47,030 --> 01:41:46,080
the crash from the year before that the

2980
01:41:49,669 --> 01:41:47,040
plane uh

2981
01:41:51,189 --> 01:41:49,679
uh where when everyone survived uh that

2982
01:41:52,950 --> 01:41:51,199
plane was pretty much intact when it

2983
01:41:56,470 --> 01:41:52,960
girdled to the bottom of the ocean

2984
01:41:57,430 --> 01:41:56,480
uh and uh i think we could find the same

2985
01:42:00,550 --> 01:41:57,440
thing there

2986
01:42:02,229 --> 01:42:00,560
uh i'm i'm convinced that uh

2987
01:42:03,510 --> 01:42:02,239
listen we're we're mapping every bottom

2988
01:42:05,109 --> 01:42:03,520
every piece at the bottom of the ocean

2989
01:42:07,109 --> 01:42:05,119
even today

2990
01:42:08,390 --> 01:42:07,119
i'm across someday and i believe enough

2991
01:42:09,990 --> 01:42:08,400
of the wreckage will be there

2992
01:42:11,590 --> 01:42:10,000
to tell us to show that hey there's an

2993
01:42:12,070 --> 01:42:11,600
engine that got blown off of this plane

2994
01:42:16,790 --> 01:42:12,080
or

2995
01:42:18,629 --> 01:42:16,800
uh with it but i believe uh the answer

2996
01:42:20,390 --> 01:42:18,639
the the real answer is the bottom of the

2997
01:42:22,470 --> 01:42:20,400
ocean where that proves my uh

2998
01:42:24,310 --> 01:42:22,480
a conclusion or it's another matter but

2999
01:42:25,030 --> 01:42:24,320
that's where it is and it and it can be

3000
01:42:27,750 --> 01:42:25,040
done

3001
01:42:28,470 --> 01:42:27,760
um you know i i'm just so frustrated

3002
01:42:30,229 --> 01:42:28,480
still that the

3003
01:42:32,310 --> 01:42:30,239
the in agreement's a long time ago when

3004
01:42:33,990 --> 01:42:32,320
they have a terrible caseload already

3005
01:42:35,590 --> 01:42:34,000
the government the ntsb with

3006
01:42:36,950 --> 01:42:35,600
with accident investigations i

3007
01:42:39,189 --> 01:42:36,960
understand you don't want to devote

3008
01:42:41,030 --> 01:42:39,199
resources to something like this but

3009
01:42:43,750 --> 01:42:41,040
but this has been so frustrating to get

3010
01:42:45,109 --> 01:42:43,760
anybody to be remotely interested in in

3011
01:42:48,390 --> 01:42:45,119
looking at this thing

3012
01:42:49,830 --> 01:42:48,400
uh even years ago i mean years ago 25 30

3013
01:42:51,430 --> 01:42:49,840
years ago i couldn't get anybody

3014
01:42:53,510 --> 01:42:51,440
interested

3015
01:42:54,629 --> 01:42:53,520
you know one of the one of the things is

3016
01:42:56,470 --> 01:42:54,639
the uh

3017
01:42:58,709 --> 01:42:56,480
and i can let you ladies go unless you

3018
01:43:00,709 --> 01:42:58,719
have uh more you'd like to

3019
01:43:02,310 --> 01:43:00,719
talk about oh no we're good i just

3020
01:43:04,709 --> 01:43:02,320
wanted to say thank you

3021
01:43:06,070 --> 01:43:04,719
thank you thank you both for being on

3022
01:43:07,109 --> 01:43:06,080
here tonight thank you for everything

3023
01:43:10,310 --> 01:43:07,119
you've done for me

3024
01:43:15,990 --> 01:43:12,149
i really appreciate the call it was very

3025
01:43:19,109 --> 01:43:16,000
nice you take care of yourselves

3026
01:43:19,669 --> 01:43:19,119
all right good night um one of the

3027
01:43:22,070 --> 01:43:19,679
things

3028
01:43:22,950 --> 01:43:22,080
uh you mentioned earlier when we were

3029
01:43:26,870 --> 01:43:22,960
speaking

3030
01:43:30,310 --> 01:43:26,880
and that is the uh radioactive

3031
01:43:32,070 --> 01:43:30,320
material on board is that something that

3032
01:43:34,870 --> 01:43:32,080
could pose a risk

3033
01:43:36,390 --> 01:43:34,880
i mean they determined again this is the

3034
01:43:37,430 --> 01:43:36,400
government saying this but i think that

3035
01:43:39,910 --> 01:43:37,440
what i've learned

3036
01:43:41,590 --> 01:43:39,920
no it wasn't a risk and it was uh it was

3037
01:43:42,870 --> 01:43:41,600
packaged it was a very small amount of

3038
01:43:44,709 --> 01:43:42,880
uh

3039
01:43:46,229 --> 01:43:44,719
exactly yeah but it was nothing

3040
01:43:47,189 --> 01:43:46,239
significant it wouldn't have posed a

3041
01:43:50,310 --> 01:43:47,199
risk

3042
01:43:50,629 --> 01:43:50,320
to one there was another other cargo

3043
01:43:53,669 --> 01:43:50,639
that

3044
01:43:55,669 --> 01:43:53,679
film

3045
01:43:57,910 --> 01:43:55,679
uh there were a number of cases of movie

3046
01:43:59,510 --> 01:43:57,920
film that were being transported

3047
01:44:01,189 --> 01:43:59,520
and there was some question as to

3048
01:44:02,070 --> 01:44:01,199
whether or not it was the flammable type

3049
01:44:05,270 --> 01:44:02,080
film

3050
01:44:06,470 --> 01:44:05,280
uh that had been uh discounted

3051
01:44:07,990 --> 01:44:06,480
not being used anymore because they

3052
01:44:09,750 --> 01:44:08,000
determined it's flammable and would

3053
01:44:13,109 --> 01:44:09,760
could catch fire easily inside

3054
01:44:15,430 --> 01:44:13,119
silver nitrate right exactly right

3055
01:44:17,189 --> 01:44:15,440
they determined listen you'll love this

3056
01:44:18,390 --> 01:44:17,199
they determined that it wasn't silver

3057
01:44:19,830 --> 01:44:18,400
nitrate film

3058
01:44:22,070 --> 01:44:19,840
because they asked the shipper and he

3059
01:44:25,510 --> 01:44:22,080
said it wasn't

3060
01:44:26,709 --> 01:44:25,520
um interestingly bill nash the fellow we

3061
01:44:29,510 --> 01:44:26,719
talked about earlier who was

3062
01:44:31,590 --> 01:44:29,520
often deciding with my dad uh bill

3063
01:44:33,910 --> 01:44:31,600
thought it might have been a

3064
01:44:35,430 --> 01:44:33,920
film uh they caught on fire just a

3065
01:44:37,430 --> 01:44:35,440
smoldering fire that could have

3066
01:44:39,990 --> 01:44:37,440
rendered the crew unconscious in the

3067
01:44:40,470 --> 01:44:40,000
plane and in fact the plane was loaded

3068
01:44:43,189 --> 01:44:40,480
uh

3069
01:44:44,550 --> 01:44:43,199
there was a huge today's technology a

3070
01:44:45,590 --> 01:44:44,560
huge ibm machine

3071
01:44:47,990 --> 01:44:45,600
something that would fit in your

3072
01:44:49,109 --> 01:44:48,000
thumbnail today back in those days it

3073
01:44:51,030 --> 01:44:49,119
was a couple times

3074
01:44:52,470 --> 01:44:51,040
you know and and a piece of ibm

3075
01:44:53,910 --> 01:44:52,480
machinery one of the first computers was

3076
01:44:56,790 --> 01:44:53,920
loaded in the cargo

3077
01:44:57,750 --> 01:44:56,800
and though two the pieces of ibm cargo

3078
01:44:59,030 --> 01:44:57,760
were trying to get to

3079
01:45:00,310 --> 01:44:59,040
try to get two pieces on board they

3080
01:45:01,030 --> 01:45:00,320
could only get one on the other would

3081
01:45:02,470 --> 01:45:01,040
fit

3082
01:45:04,390 --> 01:45:02,480
and it was up in the forward part of the

3083
01:45:06,390 --> 01:45:04,400
plane and and i looked at that

3084
01:45:08,229 --> 01:45:06,400
possibility too could that thing have

3085
01:45:10,310 --> 01:45:08,239
gotten loose in some way and maybe

3086
01:45:13,990 --> 01:45:10,320
knocked some of the canisters loose

3087
01:45:16,950 --> 01:45:14,000
uh again it just didn't just didn't

3088
01:45:18,149 --> 01:45:16,960
it didn't seem true to me right and uh

3089
01:45:21,189 --> 01:45:18,159
the strato

3090
01:45:21,590 --> 01:45:21,199
uh strata cruisers used to be a cargo

3091
01:45:24,390 --> 01:45:21,600
plane

3092
01:45:25,350 --> 01:45:24,400
so they're they're used to you know they

3093
01:45:26,790 --> 01:45:25,360
carry a lot of them

3094
01:45:29,350 --> 01:45:26,800
they're originally an aircraft an

3095
01:45:31,910 --> 01:45:29,360
airport air force plane and they were

3096
01:45:33,590 --> 01:45:31,920
changed modified to commercial use in

3097
01:45:35,510 --> 01:45:33,600
the late 1940s

3098
01:45:37,750 --> 01:45:35,520
uh they were used long beyond the

3099
01:45:39,430 --> 01:45:37,760
commercial uses cargo planes but

3100
01:45:41,350 --> 01:45:39,440
they always transported cargo as they do

3101
01:45:44,149 --> 01:45:41,360
today yeah one trip uh

3102
01:45:45,430 --> 01:45:44,159
one trip was started pan am that was how

3103
01:45:48,149 --> 01:45:45,440
he began as a male

3104
01:45:49,750 --> 01:45:48,159
and cargo cargo was important i mean and

3105
01:45:52,629 --> 01:45:49,760
mail was very important

3106
01:45:53,430 --> 01:45:52,639
you know uh strangely uh on this this

3107
01:45:56,790 --> 01:45:53,440
plane one of the

3108
01:45:59,189 --> 01:45:56,800
the uh pieces of wreckage that was

3109
01:46:02,870 --> 01:45:59,199
recovered was a floating mailbag

3110
01:46:05,270 --> 01:46:02,880
and they dried mail and delivered it to

3111
01:46:06,790 --> 01:46:05,280
uh the recipients uh who had no clue

3112
01:46:07,270 --> 01:46:06,800
that they had been on board the plane

3113
01:46:12,709 --> 01:46:07,280
wow

3114
01:46:14,070 --> 01:46:12,719
um so this is the last call for calls

3115
01:46:16,950 --> 01:46:14,080
eight five five

3116
01:46:17,430 --> 01:46:16,960
four seven two five four eight three um

3117
01:46:19,830 --> 01:46:17,440
so we

3118
01:46:20,550 --> 01:46:19,840
we have about uh seven minutes left to

3119
01:46:22,149 --> 01:46:20,560
this

3120
01:46:23,910 --> 01:46:22,159
show i don't know if we gave out your

3121
01:46:25,030 --> 01:46:23,920
website but it's very easy it's your

3122
01:46:27,109 --> 01:46:25,040
name right

3123
01:46:28,470 --> 01:46:27,119
well actually that or flight 7 is

3124
01:46:32,790 --> 01:46:28,480
missing.com

3125
01:46:34,470 --> 01:46:32,800
or ken fortenberry.com and

3126
01:46:35,830 --> 01:46:34,480
you know there's more information there

3127
01:46:37,830 --> 01:46:35,840
uh for sure

3128
01:46:39,270 --> 01:46:37,840
um you know there's so many things

3129
01:46:41,030 --> 01:46:39,280
examined in this market again i

3130
01:46:41,669 --> 01:46:41,040
appreciate so much for taking the time

3131
01:46:45,350 --> 01:46:41,679
to

3132
01:46:48,390 --> 01:46:45,360
with with your folks

3133
01:46:49,430 --> 01:46:48,400
about it um the ufo angle is just is

3134
01:46:52,470 --> 01:46:49,440
fascinating

3135
01:46:53,669 --> 01:46:52,480
and uh again who knows uh stranger

3136
01:46:56,310 --> 01:46:53,679
things have happened

3137
01:46:58,149 --> 01:46:56,320
yeah stranger things will still happen

3138
01:47:00,870 --> 01:46:58,159
uh we had a we had a couple of

3139
01:47:01,270 --> 01:47:00,880
notes up on the chat room uh people of

3140
01:47:04,629 --> 01:47:01,280
course

3141
01:47:06,709 --> 01:47:04,639
always want to know the conclusion and

3142
01:47:08,229 --> 01:47:06,719
um can you hint at that you know i know

3143
01:47:10,310 --> 01:47:08,239
you want to sell your books

3144
01:47:11,750 --> 01:47:10,320
i don't want to sell books coronavirus

3145
01:47:12,790 --> 01:47:11,760
has not been good to the book selling

3146
01:47:14,709 --> 01:47:12,800
business

3147
01:47:15,990 --> 01:47:14,719
okay so we'll we'll skim away from that

3148
01:47:18,070 --> 01:47:16,000
topic for right now

3149
01:47:19,109 --> 01:47:18,080
i will look i i'm not going to be the

3150
01:47:23,510 --> 01:47:19,119
spoiler i

3151
01:47:26,550 --> 01:47:23,520
i can i can tell you that uh

3152
01:47:27,590 --> 01:47:26,560
that the the conclusion i reached uh has

3153
01:47:29,590 --> 01:47:27,600
been uh

3154
01:47:30,950 --> 01:47:29,600
uh thoroughly examined by a lot of

3155
01:47:32,709 --> 01:47:30,960
experts none the least

3156
01:47:34,390 --> 01:47:32,719
not the least of which is interesting a

3157
01:47:37,910 --> 01:47:34,400
fellow that uh some of you guys may know

3158
01:47:40,870 --> 01:47:37,920
is john jay nance who is abc's uh

3159
01:47:41,750 --> 01:47:40,880
aviation analyst a a pilot former air

3160
01:47:44,709 --> 01:47:41,760
force pilot

3161
01:47:46,550 --> 01:47:44,719
and a uh commercial pilot as well john

3162
01:47:47,350 --> 01:47:46,560
nass has written a number of aviation

3163
01:47:49,270 --> 01:47:47,360
books

3164
01:47:50,470 --> 01:47:49,280
and he's really an expert in aviation

3165
01:47:54,470 --> 01:47:50,480
and john nance

3166
01:47:57,510 --> 01:47:54,480
says i agree with your conclusion oh wow

3167
01:48:00,790 --> 01:47:57,520
wow so it's worth uh it you know i

3168
01:48:03,669 --> 01:48:00,800
i had a girlfriend years ago

3169
01:48:03,990 --> 01:48:03,679
that used to read the last page of the

3170
01:48:05,590 --> 01:48:04,000
book

3171
01:48:07,350 --> 01:48:05,600
first and that's what i'm going to do

3172
01:48:11,350 --> 01:48:07,360
when i when i get your book

3173
01:48:15,030 --> 01:48:11,360
we have one last call from dallas

3174
01:48:18,790 --> 01:48:15,040
and i'm going to i have to ask this

3175
01:48:19,510 --> 01:48:18,800
guy's name because he's saying that's

3176
01:48:23,430 --> 01:48:19,520
his name

3177
01:48:25,109 --> 01:48:23,440
uh snort is that really your name

3178
01:48:26,870 --> 01:48:25,119
all my friends call me snore day of

3179
01:48:29,189 --> 01:48:26,880
yarnell

3180
01:48:30,070 --> 01:48:29,199
okay snort welcome to the show from

3181
01:48:32,470 --> 01:48:30,080
dallas

3182
01:48:35,350 --> 01:48:32,480
uh how are you we have uh five minutes

3183
01:48:37,510 --> 01:48:35,360
left here just to let you know

3184
01:48:38,790 --> 01:48:37,520
oh thank you ken fascinating topic i

3185
01:48:40,070 --> 01:48:38,800
look forward to

3186
01:48:41,750 --> 01:48:40,080
getting a book can you share with us

3187
01:48:43,109 --> 01:48:41,760
where i would purchase one of these

3188
01:48:46,470 --> 01:48:43,119
books

3189
01:48:50,390 --> 01:48:46,480
yeah thank you what's your name again

3190
01:48:53,270 --> 01:48:50,400
snort listen snort you're gonna have to

3191
01:48:54,790 --> 01:48:53,280
you're gonna have to present him yeah

3192
01:48:56,950 --> 01:48:54,800
you can get it on amazon if you can't

3193
01:48:58,790 --> 01:48:56,960
get in the bookstore

3194
01:49:00,310 --> 01:48:58,800
hey thanks for asking there snort great

3195
01:49:02,390 --> 01:49:00,320
movie i would i would love to see this

3196
01:49:07,109 --> 01:49:02,400
topic made into a movie

3197
01:49:09,350 --> 01:49:07,119
yeah i would too has that ever come up

3198
01:49:11,189 --> 01:49:09,360
you know we've had uh interest in the

3199
01:49:13,750 --> 01:49:11,199
past for like a documentary

3200
01:49:15,669 --> 01:49:13,760
uh before the book was published uh a

3201
01:49:17,910 --> 01:49:15,679
couple of times as a matter of fact

3202
01:49:19,430 --> 01:49:17,920
and uh it it fell through there's so

3203
01:49:20,310 --> 01:49:19,440
many books and so many movies out there

3204
01:49:21,990 --> 01:49:20,320
these days

3205
01:49:23,430 --> 01:49:22,000
uh right now the book's only been out

3206
01:49:25,669 --> 01:49:23,440
three weeks again so

3207
01:49:26,830 --> 01:49:25,679
who knows i hope we get some interest in

3208
01:49:29,109 --> 01:49:26,840
it

3209
01:49:30,470 --> 01:49:29,119
yeah thank you and i look forward to

3210
01:49:32,550 --> 01:49:30,480
reading it bud

3211
01:49:34,390 --> 01:49:32,560
thank you sir all right thanks for the

3212
01:49:37,430 --> 01:49:34,400
call snort

3213
01:49:39,109 --> 01:49:37,440
and uh so that's it for calls uh that

3214
01:49:40,390 --> 01:49:39,119
was uh that was interesting uh an

3215
01:49:42,310 --> 01:49:40,400
interesting name

3216
01:49:45,109 --> 01:49:42,320
i don't really want to know uh how we

3217
01:49:50,470 --> 01:49:48,629
so uh as far as

3218
01:49:52,550 --> 01:49:50,480
as uh you said that you're actually

3219
01:49:55,750 --> 01:49:52,560
gonna be moving on and and that

3220
01:49:57,030 --> 01:49:55,760
that is i guess it's this was this would

3221
01:50:01,030 --> 01:49:57,040
you call this book a

3222
01:50:02,790 --> 01:50:01,040
a a closure for you yeah i do um

3223
01:50:04,790 --> 01:50:02,800
listen i've had closure several times in

3224
01:50:07,589 --> 01:50:04,800
the past though martin

3225
01:50:09,990 --> 01:50:07,599
i think it was uh one suspect and i

3226
01:50:11,350 --> 01:50:10,000
would say yep that's it and then i'd you

3227
01:50:11,910 --> 01:50:11,360
know wake up two or three nights later

3228
01:50:14,470 --> 01:50:11,920
said

3229
01:50:15,189 --> 01:50:14,480
maybe not and i'd investigate some more

3230
01:50:18,149 --> 01:50:15,199
uh

3231
01:50:19,830 --> 01:50:18,159
and in 1997 which was the 50th

3232
01:50:22,070 --> 01:50:19,840
anniversary of this plane uh

3233
01:50:23,589 --> 01:50:22,080
crashing my brothers and i went to san

3234
01:50:25,750 --> 01:50:23,599
francisco and we were so

3235
01:50:27,910 --> 01:50:25,760
fortunate to for to have the folks at

3236
01:50:30,149 --> 01:50:27,920
the san francisco airport museum

3237
01:50:31,430 --> 01:50:30,159
uh take us around the airport in the old

3238
01:50:33,589 --> 01:50:31,440
pan am area

3239
01:50:35,189 --> 01:50:33,599
and uh took us actually out on the

3240
01:50:37,510 --> 01:50:35,199
runway 28 l

3241
01:50:39,270 --> 01:50:37,520
uh where the plane departed and took us

3242
01:50:40,790 --> 01:50:39,280
out on the runway at the moment our

3243
01:50:43,990 --> 01:50:40,800
dad's plane left uh

3244
01:50:45,750 --> 01:50:44,000
my god what are you feeling and as we

3245
01:50:47,510 --> 01:50:45,760
race down that runway

3246
01:50:48,790 --> 01:50:47,520
uh i can't begin to tell you how how

3247
01:50:51,030 --> 01:50:48,800
that felt

3248
01:50:51,990 --> 01:50:51,040
uh that is something i finished that

3249
01:50:53,830 --> 01:50:52,000
weekend

3250
01:50:55,109 --> 01:50:53,840
uh visited the old neighborhood this is

3251
01:50:58,149 --> 01:50:55,119
the house we lived in when

3252
01:51:01,109 --> 01:50:58,159
the plane went down and i said uh

3253
01:51:03,189 --> 01:51:01,119
i'm finished i've got closure and then

3254
01:51:07,750 --> 01:51:03,199
what a week later before i was back into

3255
01:51:11,510 --> 01:51:09,669
to get where i am but i'm confident now

3256
01:51:14,550 --> 01:51:11,520
it's it's closure for me

3257
01:51:15,270 --> 01:51:14,560
i just uh i wish i could uh reach more

3258
01:51:17,030 --> 01:51:15,280
people

3259
01:51:19,109 --> 01:51:17,040
uh more family members i think i've

3260
01:51:20,629 --> 01:51:19,119
reached as many as i can find right now

3261
01:51:22,470 --> 01:51:20,639
i'd love to be able to reach more of

3262
01:51:25,350 --> 01:51:22,480
them and give them some closure

3263
01:51:27,189 --> 01:51:25,360
in this case as well uh and it's strange

3264
01:51:29,189 --> 01:51:27,199
you still hear from people

3265
01:51:30,629 --> 01:51:29,199
they'll reach me through the website or

3266
01:51:32,790 --> 01:51:30,639
whatever uh

3267
01:51:34,149 --> 01:51:32,800
who i had no clue existed and they

3268
01:51:36,709 --> 01:51:34,159
they're just thanking me for

3269
01:51:37,830 --> 01:51:36,719
for the years i put into it yeah how

3270
01:51:40,550 --> 01:51:37,840
about that

3271
01:51:41,510 --> 01:51:40,560
well ken uh thank you so much and uh go

3272
01:51:43,589 --> 01:51:41,520
ahead and give out

3273
01:51:44,629 --> 01:51:43,599
uh your you can give out both websites

3274
01:51:48,510 --> 01:51:44,639
if you want

3275
01:51:49,750 --> 01:51:48,520
yeah it's a flight7 is missing.com or

3276
01:51:53,030 --> 01:51:49,760
kenfortenberry.com

3277
01:51:55,830 --> 01:51:53,040
and forgive me there it is

3278
01:51:56,950 --> 01:51:55,840
yeah hey oh there's the book on youtube

3279
01:51:59,910 --> 01:51:56,960
so let me just

3280
01:52:00,390 --> 01:51:59,920
ask this is it flight seven spelled out

3281
01:52:02,070 --> 01:52:00,400
or the

3282
01:52:03,990 --> 01:52:02,080
number seven run with the number just

3283
01:52:07,270 --> 01:52:04,000
like the flight would be flight seven

3284
01:52:09,109 --> 01:52:07,280
is missing i got it all right i thank

3285
01:52:11,189 --> 01:52:09,119
you so much for this opportunity

3286
01:52:12,390 --> 01:52:11,199
you bet ken uh it's been a real pleasure

3287
01:52:15,109 --> 01:52:12,400
nice speaking with you

3288
01:52:15,669 --> 01:52:15,119
so much all right good night all right

3289
01:52:17,830 --> 01:52:15,679
everyone

3290
01:52:19,030 --> 01:52:17,840
so that is it for the show this evening

3291
01:52:22,310 --> 01:52:19,040
thank you so much

3292
01:52:25,669 --> 01:52:22,320
uh for hanging in and uh listening

3293
01:52:29,030 --> 01:52:25,679
and your calls as well um next week

3294
01:52:31,109 --> 01:52:29,040
we have michael busby um and he is going

3295
01:52:34,149 --> 01:52:31,119
to be talking about airships

3296
01:52:35,270 --> 01:52:34,159
and this is a you know historic ufos uh

3297
01:52:36,149 --> 01:52:35,280
we're going to be talking about that

3298
01:52:38,550 --> 01:52:36,159
next week

3299
01:52:39,350 --> 01:52:38,560
so i really look forward to that show as

3300
01:52:41,669 --> 01:52:39,360
always

3301
01:52:42,709 --> 01:52:41,679
and remember to check out uh the art

3302
01:52:45,910 --> 01:52:42,719
website

3303
01:52:48,149 --> 01:52:45,920
uh over at martinwillisart.com and

3304
01:52:50,550 --> 01:52:48,159
again if you see something you like let

3305
01:52:53,510 --> 01:52:50,560
me know we can work out a deal

3306
01:52:53,990 --> 01:52:53,520
um i like to i like to paint so i'm

3307
01:52:56,870 --> 01:52:54,000
painting

3308
01:52:57,510 --> 01:52:56,880
you can see behind me i like to paint

3309
01:53:01,669 --> 01:52:57,520
every day

3310
01:53:05,189 --> 01:53:01,679
if i get rid of these paintings

3311
01:53:06,229 --> 01:53:05,199
and buy supplies anyway thanks so much

3312
01:53:10,830 --> 01:53:06,239
for listening

3313
01:53:14,250 --> 01:53:10,840
and remember uh to keep your eyes to the